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Introduction: Sai Baba, how this holy man of India has impacted the life of Connie Shaw? Connie is an international speaker, author, visionary, workshop facilitator, healing facilitator, humanitarian and Counselor. She teaches classes in conflict resolution, relationship communications and spiritual awareness and she is the author of the book, ‘Wake Up laughing – My miraculous life with Sai Baba.’ Welcome to Souljourns, this interview was recorded in Berthoud Colorado in 2001. Connie Shaw:  baba1

The great milestones in my life happened on my birthday. In 1982, when Lord Jesus, Gautama Buddha and Sri Sathya Sai Baba appeared to me on my birthday in the evening and stood beside my bed and started speaking to me. Gautama Buddha told me that I would be self realized in this life time and that a very big job would be….Gautama Buddha told me that I would be self realized in this lifetime and that I would have a big job. Jesus told me that he and Buddha and Sai baba were going to be with me the rest of my life but that great deal of purification was in order before my world wide work as a teacher and healer began. Now, you have to realize that very day I had been diagnosed with brain tumor, so when Jesus and Sai baba and Gautama Buddha showed up I was sure I had a brain tumor. This hadn’t happened to me before that these beings had come like this all together. I had been receiving visitations one by one and I had never heard from Sai Baba before. In fact I had only heard that very day he existed in form on the planet lived in a tiny village called Puttaparthi in South India. Now I had traveled throughout Asia for one entire year in between management consulting assignments looking for God. Finally, as he had it in the last couple of weeks I was able to discover him and a few weeks later was very fortunately able to go with my husband Jim to visit him in India whereupon he pulled us out of a crowd of 2000 people brought us in for the first of many interviews, manifested Vibhuti, holy ash for us which I ate on the spot and I was healed instantaneously. I felt that seeing him was the high point of my life and that I would never go back to India again, one trip was quite enough to understand that he was there, he loved us, he is taking care of us and I had attained my goal of finding God knowing that he is also in my heart and everyone’s heart as well as being in the body. However he had other plans.

At this particular time I have been to India 23 times most of the time leading groups of people that haven’t been out of the country before or who feel a bit reluctant about traveling alone in India. Baba has blessed us with many interviews. He has also blessed us with many healings. He saved my life on many occasions. He has appeared in our home here and also in Littleton near Denver when we lived there over 54 times. He has provided innumerable miracles during talks, holy nectar and his curative ash during talks and workshops and increasingly people have been healed at lectures and workshops and healing classes that we have conducted. People have recently seen departed relatives during the workshops, they have seen bands of angels while the workshops have been going on they have been having visions of Mary and Jesus and Yogananda, Angel Gabrielle and various other beings. So obviously this has been none of my business. I have been the last to know they were having visions while the workshop was taking place but I felt very fortunate to get to be in the same room with them while it was happening.

Now I would like to say that I have two aspects of my life like most people, BB which is before Baba and AB which is After Baba. Since Baba’s coming in to our life the dynamism of spiritual expression and experience, our spiritual life has increased enormally. Since Baba’s entry into our lives on the conscious level things have really galloped with a new intensity and delight and fun. If anyone ever tells you that the spiritual life is boring don’t believe them for a second. The spiritual life is absolutely miracle filled, it’s extremely eventful and I don’t need to say that I am a spiritual person any more than anyone else. I am just quite an ordinary individual. It’s just that I am so lucky that grace is continually happening as it is for you too. Look around, pay attention wake up see the grace, the healings, the miracle in your life. It’s happening all around you, all the time. I am just beginning to realize it because I was asleep for a very long time. I would like to talk now about the last ten years in particular. From 1988 to 1998, we have had many blessed interviews with Sai Baba who has manifested all sorts of material objects, who has blessed our friends and associates who have come on the trips with us and he has told us about our past, our present and our future. Baba has come many times in my dreams.

He has stood beside my bed at night. He has walked through the house. He has walked through the meetings at our Sai Baba meeting room. He has walked outside during Bonfire Bhajans that we have held at Harmony farm where we live and he has told me many things. He has told me what he has in mind for me, that he has a big job and that he is going to help me do it and that really is not my life and its not my business and that he will be guiding me every step of the way. You see he doesn’t want me to have any sense of being puffed up about it or any sense of ownership or separation, of being less than and unworthy and incapable of doing it or that somehow I am so lucky to get to be picked for this role. It’s just as it is and there are millions of people throughout the world that are playing a part in this very fun play. I am just one little person in this very delightful drama. Everybody likes a good play and this is a really good play.

Bhagawan-21Here as we transit the twentieth century going into the unknown but assuredly fun filled dynamic twenty first century where the inauguration of the 1000 years of peace and plenty will be taking place where we will be living and are living in the time of the communion of saints. We are those saints. We may not feel very saintly we may not look very saintly. We may have an occasional snit. We may still have clashes, we may still have judgments but we are the ones. This is the time. Remember Jesus said that, ‘there will come a time when ye shall do things greater than I do’, these are the times and we are they. Isn’t it fun to be here at this particular time? It may seem that the world is unraveling on every front politically, and as far as big medicine, big education, big business, it may seem that we are in peril everywhere we look. Yes, things are rather active and dynamic, rather tumultuous right now but at the same time we are seeing an outpouring of more miracles, more healings, more dynamic expression of spirituality than ever before on the planet among very ordinary people of every background, every age every social class and caste, every racial group. Its thrilling to me One of the things that as given me a much bigger sense of the larger picture of life is having gone since 1988 to two people that are called ‘Nadi readers’ in India. A nadi is an ancient manuscript it is spelled ‘N A D I’. If you can imagine this over 3000 years ago at least two sages devoted their entire lives to transcribing dictation from heaven about several thousand so called remarkable people who would be on the planet towards the end of the twentieth century and the beginning of the twenty first century who would assist Sathya Sai Baba, the planetary avatar, living divinity with world uplift they would help him to prevent all our nuclear war and destruction on the planet. They would help him to start the thousand years of peace and plenty; they would help him in establishing extraordinary new schools with great vision for the wonderful new babies, the new baby saints and masters that are coming to help us. They would help him with the establishment not only of elementary and high schools but new universities with healing centers and with extraordinary ashrams.

Baba says, ‘First we make an ashram of our heart, then we make an ashram or a shrine of our home and our work place, then we make an ashram of our community and then together we will make an ashram of the world until ultimately love is expressing in the most unbelievable and inexpressible way as if we were all ministry angels, awakening to the fact that we are each other, we are truly brother and sisters, celebrating the fatherhood of God and Brotherhood of man rather than hurting each other and hurting ourselves over and over and over in this coma that we seem to be in. It’s a bit like the childhood story of ‘Sleeping beauty’. Remember, sleeping beauty was in the castle and the prince came to Sleeping beauty and kissed her and woke her up and together they went around the castle and they touched all the people who had fallen asleep. Baba is the prince, he is inside of us as well as outside in his body and he is kissing us with his grace and his love, his tenderness, his healing and we are awakening and touching the people that we meet so that they can know that they are the Prince too. We are all the Prince and the princess. We are all the mother father God. We are all the divinity, we are awakening to the glory that we are, sometimes its pretty hard, sometimes it seems challenging and difficult to the extent that we don’t want to be in these bodies. Many people may be leaving. Some will be staying, the ones that leave will be on to their next adventure helping us from the other side.

The ones that are staying in their bodies will help with any clean up that’s necessary from any chaos that we create for ourselves. It’s pretty simple. Now in regards to Suka Nadi readings and Bhrigu readings, when sage Suka and Lord Bhrigu devoted their lives to taking dictation for the people that would be assisting in the enormous shift in human consciousness, they took down dictation about these lives in exquisite detail. I have had about five readings with Mr. Pandya who was a very old man in Bombay (Mumbai) who lives near kemps corner. I have not kept up with him recently, I am not even sure if he is still alive. I have also had readings, the Suka nadi readings in Bangalore with the family, the Ramakrishna Sastri family that were given the same job of spending generations for 3000 years of passing these manuscripts down through fire and blood and storm and war and invasion and British occupation and all sorts of madness and mayhem that happens to every country. can you imagine that these manuscripts are still available today and there are people like myself who are quite ordinary that just walk in off the street can be told that their life as they have conceived it so far has followed a perfect plan and that the plan is about to change. One finds out their particular Suka nadi reading, their Bhrigu reading or their cosmic blue print when its time for them to take a giant step to wake up into greater maturity and to shoulder more responsibility.

When its time for them to leave behind their small conception of themselves and so called ordinary people in the world who are not willing to take on more responsibility. So this is an encouragement and as I said a cosmic blue print which helps people to understand that the plan is much bigger than we could ever conceive and that we each have a small role but each small role is vital. Sai Baba has told me 3 or 4 times in interviews that I would be Self realized in this life time. He has told me that my life would have three different aspects or stages to it. The first would be the moral life when I was learning moral principles in my youth. The second would be living the spiritual life which I have been doing as a spiritual aspirant the past 30 years, the third would be a divine life that means there would be an awakening that this individual is not a person, that this individual is condensed life, there would come the realization that in the divine life stage or the last one that this individual is actually not a person but frozen light, is simply an energetic waveform pattern appearing as this seemingly female entity called Connie Shaw in the USA at the end of the twentieth century and early twenty first century. So you see with the unraveling of the ego there comes to one, continual revelations or realizations that what we thought we were is not at all who we are and neither is anyone else that’s the good news, what a relief! Then we begin to find out who we really are which is nothing no one so the joke is on us, it is very funny and in the mean time we have such a great time playing hide and seek with divinity in ourselves and each other and discovering that love is who we are. We are beloved of God. He is our most beloved. We are He and that I am that for which I have sought throughout all embodiments and that has nothing to do with this personality, body or mind or emotions certainly. It simply is a fact that each of us is a fragment of God. We are flecks in the mirror, we are parts of the puzzle, we are He and he is ourselves and all is one pattern. I know this sounds quite far out, this sounds unbelievable far flung, it sounds strange and inconceivable to some but your heart knows the truth. If your heart resonates to any of this wonderful! If not that’s alright it doesn’t matter, it doesn’t matter. Now in the Suka nadi and Bhrigu readings there was information given that was very hard to accept at first. The information was first of, this soul is a Mahapurushayogi whereupon she said what on earth is mahapurushayogi? The answer was that this being has been with Sri Sathya Sai Baba during his Krishna incarnation, during his Shirdi Sai incarnation which was the previous incarnation to this as Sai Baba of Shirdi India and as a number of other people, Sri Shankara who was a great saint of India and that, in that particular lifetime this entity known as Connie Shaw was one of his four disciples who took his work throughout the world. In the most recent incarnation this person was Duchess in England and traveled to India, lived there for quite some time as a Shirdi Sai devotee and during that time as she sat outside of his small temple meditating day in and day out year upon year in the hot sun she begged him, ‘Oh, please Baba, please Baba, let me know you in your next incarnation, let me come to you let me see you many times’. He said, ‘yes, yes yes, yes,’ just like as he does now. ‘yes, yes, yes, yes, yes yes’ and he has and she is very happy about that. Now but all that means nothing. This is just a story, this is a story that I have been told a number of times over and over, over ten times about the purpose and significance of this embodiment which is no more significant than anybody else’s embodiment.

Divine5Its fun to play this role but its not important, not important at all. One of the things that helped me realize this is that in the past ten years I have nearly died 9 times and once was from Pneumonia and another time was from malaria just recently contracted. Another time was from Congestive heart failure and three times people have tried to take this life. Twice during talks individual men rose from the audience with the intention of killing this body. In the night before each talk I was given a vision by Baba of the fact that this would take place and I saw exactly the individuals, what they looked like what they were wearing and that I should not be afraid, it might look as if they were getting very close to stuffing the life out of this body, pressing the life out of this physical form and they did but they were not successful. Another time someone tried to run my car off the cliff. All these things are not important. I have been saved from near car crashes where another time I was in a cab that nearly fell off of a cliff as the two buses were driving side by side down a mountain and we were saved by Baba as our wheels were dangling off the front of the cliff and the back wheels kept us on the ground and safe so we got out of the car and pushed the car back and all of us very well. Its been very exciting, some one would even say melodramatic but believe me these things happen and we are just in the play. What I have learnt from these experiences is especially so many illnesses is my whole idea about illness, you know, I studied new thought for a long time. I have studied the concepts of Unity, divine science, religious science and many aspects of psychology and philosophy and theology.

I used to feel that if people were ill that their thoughts were negative, it was their fault and it was quite a shame to be ill and it was just a mark of a very unspiritual person. When I encountered the Suka Nadi and the Bhrigu readings they told me that I was supposed to come back one more life time as a Brahmin boy in avery high Brahmin family and that this boy would be well educated as Brahmin Indian and then would enter Prema Sai Baba’s ashram and teach Yoga there. Now, I have begged Sai Baba for realization in this lifetime and in one of his interviews he said, ‘Please stop begging me you will have self realization, I will give it to you in this life time, it is up to me as to the time and the rhythm and the way in which you will be realized, its going to happen, stop praying for it’. So I said, ‘Alright Baba I will stop praying for it.’ I have come to know that the karma that was due for this life time as Connie Shaw and the karma for this Indian Brahmin boy have been compressed in to one life time. So instead of having normal amount of illnesses in one life time I am getting two life times worth of accidents and illnesses and upheavals in one life time so that I can graduate early as it were. So you get more home work when you want to graduate early or you want to skip a grade. Be sure that you know what you are asking for. In any event I have mentioned this because other people have told me so often in the past ten years, ‘you must be ashamed of your self How could you experience having malaria and Chronic fatigue syndrome and how could you catch pneumonia? If a person went to India to see Sai Baba I don’t think that they will come back with pneumonia, they are supposed to have all their problems solved’. That isn’t exactly the way it works. Some times you are graced and gifted with pleasurable experiences but you know Baba says that, ‘Life is this way, it’s a period of joys and sorrows, that a period of joy is simply a point between two periods of sorrow. A period of sorrow is simply a point between two periods of joy. It’s like a ‘sine’ wave, up and down, up and down until we get the lessons.’ So what have been the lessons of my illnesses? The main lesson for me is I am not the body. The second lesson is this that healing is no substitute for wholeness. What does that mean? That means that if we keep praying for Baba to heal us, we are ultimately going to be very disappointed because when we are ill we are going to be unhappy. We will think that we are the body and the body is supposed to be perfect and healthy and bouncy all the time. We will resist old age, we will be very body identified. If we come to a point that we realize that we are ill unto death and we can still be in bliss that this is the lesson of illness. Our circumstances are not what is important about our lives.

Our happiness truly is not dependant upon our circumstances. Whether we are ill or well, whether we are single or married, whether we have progeny or not, whether we are rich or poor employed or not, all of these things are mere circumstances, they are outward manifestations of the doing ness that we come to falsely identify with our selves. All these things are misidentifications. We are given these challenges, we are given these opportunities for love so that we can understand that we are not bad people, we are innocent, we are love. Its just that illness is happening, hijacking is happening, murder is happening, whatever seems to be happening in the world or in our minds is simply what seems to be happening until we can learn that really nothing is happening waves of energy are taking place, energy is flowing through this body, speaking is happening now life is happening its really much more simple than we choose to make it. In 1995 after Mary had been appearing to me for many years I wrote and published a book called ‘Mary’s miracles and prophecies: intimate revelations of a visionary’. This book caused quite a stir in some circles as some people were very in denial about the fact that earth changes were taking place in the planet, its not my intention in this program to speak of earth changes but I will say that 1998 has been remarkable for holding the most earth changes of every imaginable type in all of recorded history. We know that when the old gives way and the Piscean dispensation ends that the forthcoming Aquarian era requires new forms, new images, new types of people to bring forth this age of peace. Some of the old ways have to go. It’s our consciousness that creates storms and floods and earthquakes and volcanic eruptions. It’s our consciousness when it is stable that creates a calm, peaceful, natural environment. We are creating the tumult nature that we see around us in a variety of ways. In addition to doing the book, Mary’s miracles and prophecies; I produced 35 audio tapes, a number of video tapes, the booklet ‘Sai Baba in brief’ which has been translated into French, German and Spanish. This is what has been happening in the line of work.

I have also been involved in learning and teaching therapeutic touch, learning and teaching various counseling practices and healing facilitation modes. I have been involved in radionics and also most recently in sound therapy or bioresonance therapy doing work with individuals through a voice print. There is a process that we have been teaching recently called CCMBA, ‘Complete Cellular Mind Body Alignment’. My nick name for this process is ‘spirit flight’. This is a simple laying on of hands technique that anyone even an atheist could engage in because energy comes down through the Crown chakra out through the hands, to the partner with which one is working. It is a very simple process. Healings, visions, all sorts of extraordinary miracles have been taking place in recent months while this has been happening; it has nothing to do with me. I have been simply giving the information, people do the process and miracles happen. Once again Baba is at work creating lots of fun and healings at the mental, emotional, spiritual and physical levels for the people who attend. In 1992, Mother Mary appeared to us and told us that there was a beautiful little 36 acre farm near Berthed Colorado that she had found for us. She gave us the name of the realtor and the company, asked us to call her and make an appointment which we did. We were very full of trepidation about moving to the country after we had lived in some of the great cities of the world. We had considered ourselves to be somewhat international people after having lived and worked abroad quite a bit. I had traveled throughout my life and so had Jim and we couldn’t imagine living without the amusements and entertainments of the city. All the amenities that we thought we needed in city life. We stalled around and ultimately came to realize that we were supposed to be here. Mother Mary said that if you would be willing to move to this place which we have arranged for you then your next stage of your work will unfold. People will come from all over the world to visit you. There will be many healings and many miracles. This scared the heck out of me frankly and nevertheless I stalled around for five months until I couldn’t stall around any more and I finally just said you would have to help me. Living on a farm, I am not the farm type. Well we don’t have to do farm work. We have very pleasant situation where my offices for home productions are here. Our Sai centre is also at ‘Harmony farm’ and we have many projects and enterprises that take place. It’s not exactly what I had envisioned and it’s not a typical sort of a farm or ranch life even though we are in cattle country. Most of our neighbors they don’t understand us but they like us, we get along quite well, nevertheless we are oddities I am sure and we are exactly where we need to be. It’s been very humbling to live in a country, we have learnt a great deal. Why don’t we stop here at the moment? Okay. Connie Shaw: I will talk about the rejection first. One of the things that I have been working on in the past ten years in particular has to do with rejection issues. Baba has held out many opportunities before me like a tantalizing carrot and then yanked the carrot away. I have been verbally attacked by a number of people since I let them know that Mother Mary was visiting me. I have been invited to speak on the radio throughout the United States as well as on world wide internet talk radio about my book ‘Mary’s miracles and Prophecies’. I was very naïve because I seldom watched television and I don’t listen to the radio very much. And truly if you could imagine this, I didn’t understand what a radio talk show was.

baba I didn’t realize that some times it’s a game to invite people on the show and to insult them and attack them and then people call in and insult them and attack them and impugn their integrity and I didn’t understand that at first and I got to look at the feelings I was choosing to have about having hurt feelings and feeling rejected and feeling surprised and disappointed that people would invite me to be their guest and treat me so badly in my mind. After a while of experiencing this and finding that various people that I knew quite well puzzled me because after I was experiencing visits from Mary and Jesus these are neighbors and friends. I was very puzzled and confused about that…… when difficult challenges have come up I have always said to Baba, ‘I will see this through to the end. Lord I will do anything for you, I will go anywhere, give me any job, nothing will be too hard just help me to get through it and to have the courage to think that I most afraid of in the world is disappointing you lord or letting you down.’ That’s the only thing that I am really afraid of. I just want to do my best knowing that I live for my lord and my only prayer throughout my life in recent years has been, ‘let me be a match to set hearse on fire for the love of God or not it doesn’t matter’, that’s Baba’s business and its their business, but I certainly would love to be used in some small way that the love that I feel for him and that I am increasingly feeling for everyone I meet could somehow touch their hearts or help them to awaken to the love that they are, so that they no longer have to suffer under the delusion that they are alone or lost or lonely or that they are not the most beloved of God, they are very most beloved, as if they are the most special priceless only child of the most exquisite parents in the entire universe because that is the truth, you are the beloved child of father mother God. God knows your past, present and future and is helping you every step of the way even though you may have felt that he has abandoned you or somehow left you all alone or that you have rejected him and there is no way back. He has never left you, there is no way you can get a divorce from God and you are fully together as one all of the time. Other opportunities that have come to me for dealing with rejection issues are when I have been invited to speak at various venues and when the individuals found out about my being visited by Mary and ascended masters they have called me up to say that they are either Jewish or they are protestant or they are this or they are that or they hold this or that position or this or that organization and they have changed their minds they don’t want to me to come and speak because they feel that I am inappropriate person to speak. This has happened a number of times when I have been very thrilled to have been invited to a particular venue and then I realize that Baba has been bringing up my secret most desires, desires to be seen as a spiritual leader to inspire women and that this desire had to go. A desire to make people laugh and that’s his business and that desire had to go. A desire to feel that I was someone evolved or making progress on the spiritual path and that this is a false identification and has had to go. He has humbled me over and over. There has been such a shattering and a breaking and an unraveling of the egoic process that has been very difficult at times and yet I am extremely grateful for each of these opportunities. I only speak of this so that you will know that it’s not as fun and easy as some people would think to have been given this small role in this vast play which has six billion actors in it. One of my friends once complained to Baba that she would like to be a Mary envisionary too, she would like to have a lot of interviews, she would like to take a lot of groups back and forth to India and that she would like to write a lot of books and do all the things that Connie Shaw is doing. So why is it that he let her do that and my friend hadn’t been given these opportunities and she said that Baba laughed at her and said, ‘Connie Shaw can take the heat, I gave her the big job, she has got a big job coming because she could take the heat, she has a bold heart, she is courageous, I am very hard on her, I am very very hard on her. You would cry, you would collapse, you wouldn’t take the heat’, Okay lets stop right here for a moment. Connie Shaw: One of things that has been most helpful to me during the past ten years when there have been so many illnesses, near death experiences, when there has been a lot of difficulty in regard to other people’s projections about me has been the ‘course of Miracles’.

I have been studying the Course of Miracles for twenty years and have also been practicing the work with Byron Katie a self realized woman from California, the past year. This has been extremely helpful in my seeing my projections ever more quickly, realizing you cannot know me, I cannot know you. You can only know your self, I can only know myself. Whatever you think you know about me is only your projection. If you think I am very saintly you are very saintly. If you think I am full of ego, the, well that’s true…(laughs), anyway I think you get the idea. So there are two fears that I have dealt with continually. One of them is about eight years ago when Mother Mary began to show me a continuum of visions, thousand of visions and apparitions and locations about coming earth changes which were necessary for the planet. I began to feel overwhelmed with the number and type of these visions. I was very identified with body consciousness and naturally at that time I was so unenlightened and unaware that I was afraid of losing my body through an earth change, an earthquake or a tidal wave or have a building fall on and I thought that would probably hurt and so since I am ready to go if I go today that’s fine. Apparently I am supposed to be in this body for thirty five more years, that’s fine with me. If I go today that’s alright, I don’t care I realized that I am far more than the body and that this presence has been here before this body, during this body and will be after this body for ever. We live for ever. Another fear that I have been working with is shyness and reserve and reluctance to do things like this, be interviewed or to speak to large crowds of several hundred people or to be over run by people who think that somehow I could heal them or something ridiculous like that and so I am really trying to be an hermit but you know its just not working. Its just not working at all. People call from all over the world, they come to visit and Baba seems to be having a new job for me which seems to be putting me in the public eye.

I am fairly resigned to this and I know that its not my life and this is just what’s happening. Nevertheless its been terrifying at times and now the fear is down to a slight dull war in the background about the fact that he might somehow decide that he wants me to speak to large I mean really large crowd but I am not going to worry about that. Just like Scarlet O Harry used to say, ‘I just can’t worry about that today; I will just worry about that tomorrow,’ Today is where we are, its always now, its always the present moment. To be aware of the thoughts, to witness thoughts as they arise from the ground of consciousness is my task now. That is my only job, my only work in the world. I also realize that whenever I have fears or whenever I have concerns or upheavals or anger or jealousy all I have to is ask myself, ‘ Who is it that is thinking these thoughts?’ and I get a really good laugh. Who is it really that’s thinking these thoughts, just this person that has forgotten that’s she is divine and thinks she is a person. She thinks she is a human being and she has got all entangled once again in body consciousness, in mind or emotions. This is how we are. We do this on our way to awakening. So to have more compassion for ourselves as we experience this is also part of the process. Baba has helped me to have a great deal of compassion for this entity knows as Connie and for those that I meet knowing that we are all doing the best that we can. Baba is helping us, he is in charge of our roles and really you know he says we have very little free will in actuality. I like to think of it this way. It would be as if we are riding on an airplane and going to Chicago. Once we get in to the airplane we are allowed to get up, walk up and down the aisle from time to time we can take our food served to us or refuse it. We can take a nap or stay awake. We can talk to our seat companion or not. We can read, we can watch the movie, we can go wash our hands but we are certainly not going to be allowed to be flying Frisbees in the airplane or dancing up and down the aisles or disturbing the passengers or doing any thing that would cause a commotion to the safety of the passengers in the airplane. So actually you know we have very little freedom. We have certain freedoms within certain parameters but in actuality we are all going to Chicago. When the plane lands we will get out and that is that. We can decide not to take the plane. We can delay getting on the plane but sooner or later every human being has to take the plane and lift off. Sooner or later every human being is going to awaken. Most will awaken gradually; to awaken suddenly is too startling for the average individual. You know when you are in Junior high school or even in elementary when you are in sixth or seventh grade and you begin to experience puberty, this is seen as a very big thing with the other girls and boys. They are quite fascinated when an individual goes through puberty ahead of them. They want to know what it’s going to be like, what it feels like, what it looks like, how they are going to move through the passage into adulthood. Spirituality is like that too. Everybody goes through puberty and everybody on the spiritual path which is everybody whether they know it or not, everybody will awaken one day. Now it is sometimes seen as a very big deal because this is our illusion among our friends when we seem to manifest certain aspects of what we call yogic siddhis. Siddhi’s is spelled S I D D H I S, this means certain powers, you know yogic siddhis are certain powers have manifested from saints throughout time. When a person begins to awaken and the ego begins to unravel certain seeming gifts or graces or ……………… seem to be conferred upon them. In actuality this is our natural heritage, Baba says. You know Sai Baba doesn’t have yogic Siddhis, he is God, he is divinity itself, he is the creator of the universe and us. We are divine too he says, only we don’t know it. However we didn’t create him. We are part of the creation. So he doesn’t have the yogis siddhis but as we go through the puberty of spiritual awakening we may find certain things happening to us, they may startle us, they may terrify us. Sometimes one may begin to have the activation of kundalini energy which is a divine type of energy that purifies consciousness as it moves up through the energy centres or chakras of the body and then eventually out through the crown chakra for self realization to occur. It’s not necessary that this occur for realization to take place. Sai Baba says that everybody is self realized but they just don’t know it. The past several years there have been a number of befuddling and alarming things that have occurred in this life and they have been these. People have called me or written to me and told me that they have had conversations with me in Switzerland, in Texas, in Idaho, in various places around the world. They have thanked me for giving them inventions having to do with lates technology and quantum mechanics and I have not told them I know virtually nothing about physics and that I wasn’t there and I didn’t do it and it must have been someone else and may be Baba just sent a fragment of this embodiment to them because they know me and they don’t know Baba. They would trust me and so it could come from me, but please don’t thank me thank him. Others have told me that I have come to them and walked and talked with them, counseled them, healed them that I worked in a medical camp for two weeks in India during the only year 1996 that I did not go to India in the past year since 1979. This at first was surprising and boggling to me, I thought, ‘Baba, what are you doing? Why are you making an aspect of me appear to people?’ People in Switzerland even think that I stayed there for a week in their home and I gave them lots of talks at the Sai centre and I have no recollection of this. Well my first thought was, ‘Did I behave myself? Did I send them a thank you note? How did my luggage get there? Did they bilocate too? What if I ever see them at the ashram and they come up to me and I have never seen them before then they will think that I am rude. Oh, Baba please take care of all those details, this could be a little sticky’. That’s all egoic outworking, its just non sense. I believe people when they say that these things happen but you know I have read many many instances that this is happening all over the world. Its been happening throughout history and will continue so, this is none of my business. Another thing that has happened as I said is that Amrit nectar and vibhuti have appeared on pictures during workshops, that Amrit, nectar and vibhuti have appeared on people as we have been talking and interacting, its appeared on me vibhuti and I suppose half a dozen times or more in the past year. That doesn’t mean anything. When I have been in the kitchen preparing milk for myself, I would put an apple on the counter turn around and turn back and there is vibhuti on the apple. I once went on a trip recently and had a banana that someone gave me in a suitcase. I opened my suitcase when I got home to unpack it, took out the banana and there was a large two inch OM inscribed on the banana. Now this is happening all over the world. I know many people that have had these experiences. Its extraordinary that Baba does, how he delights us and surprises us and gives us so many happy little leelas and pranks and jokes and ……………. along the path of life to hearten us to cheer us during these times to let us know that even though we may think of things as difficult, challenging, sometimes overwhelming, he is right here with us and that is all a play and that its fun if we would let it be fun.

There is a woman in California named Byron Katie as I have said so many times who is the inspiration for the center for the WORK and for a process called The Work, which has to do with seeing our projections, that process has helped me so much to understand that I am neither less than or better than anyone else and each other person in my life is an aspect of myself or I am an aspect of them. This has lots of delightful realizations and aspects. In fact I found that life is an ongoing process of deeper and deeper revelation, realization and inspiration. I found that when saints and Angels and ascended masters appear to me there is nothing that I could possibly think of that caused them to come except that I must need help, I must be a hard case that they need to show up and correct me or encourage me. When Sai Baba comes and talks to me sometimes he chastises me, some times he jokes with me, sometimes he delivers information or warnings or mostly he just loves like he loves you. There is so much more that I could tell you that I know that you have some questions that you would like to ask. So perhaps we will go to some more of the questions right now. Ted Henry: you know Sai Baba loves you because he has told you that, how about those of us for whom he hasn’t said it? Connie Shaw: A person needs to come to the point where he experiences in his heart that he has love itself and does not need to get love from outside of himself seemingly from Sai Baba. Each person is given opportunity to learn that lesson just as I was given many opportunities to learn rejection lessons, that there is no such thing as rejection. Many times I have been to India and I wanted Sai Baba to look at me or take letters and he has ignored me and then I have seen him turning around to look at me with a twinkle in his eye to see how I am taking this so called rebuff or ignoring me or rejection and then he laughs, then I laugh that I caught him looking. Its fun. We must come to understand love is who we are. Ted Henry: On the path towards self realization that we are all on just to recognize that we are all ready to be self realized I used to think free will was hugely important and am starting to think it is lesser in importance because we are on the path on automatic pilot. Connie Shaw: Yes, that’s exactly right.

Baba has said we have very little free will in actuality and I suppose you might even say that our free will almost amounts to our ability our choice to be attuned to the divine in the moment or to be distracted with our attention elsewhere. If we put the flame of our attention on the divine within us we can very comfortably drive our cars, do our work, give talks, sweep the floor, so whatever we need to do while we are looking outwards we seem quite natural and normal in our appearance but in actuality our consciousness is focused into our heart deeply inside to abiding with the presence. Brother ……………… as you know who is a monk quite some time ago did a process called practicing the presence of God within, while he did his cooking work in the monastery. We can do that all the time. There is no excuse that we cannot live a spiritual life while living in the world. As Baba says continue living, we need not go off to the forest, we need not run away or isolate ourselves unless that is our Dharma. You know Dharma has about nineteen different translations in Sanskrit but Dharma essentially means for this purpose the right livelihood, the purpose that we have been given by God, the role that we have been given. So to get back to your idea about free will there is really no way that we can fulfill…. So to come back to your idea about free will there is really no way that we can fail to complete our dharma. We will do what we are directed to do. In fact Baba has often indicated that we are puppets in the lap of God that makes me think of Muppets or howdydoody puppets and that he is working us and we just think that we are so charming having such a wonderful time and really there is nothing in there.

Ted Henry: So, nothing then is unimportant even when we think we are doing nothing we are …………………if I can use that word in quotes, even when we think we are doing something destructive its constructive it sounds like.

Connie Shaw: Its all part of the whole, everything is beautiful. God is everything and God is good. The person who is lying in an alley playing the role of an alcoholic is doing his perfect Dharma. How do we know that that person ten years from now will not be speaking from a lectern on a stage to one thousand people about how he was feeling helpless and hopeless down in his luck and totally bottomed out with alcohol or drugs and that he was saved by God. He knows his higher power. he loves and he is in constant contact now with his higher power and he has dedicated his life to helping all those who want to kick their addictions. We have no idea what a person is doing in the way that they are playing a role. The boss who is angry and shouting is playing his role. Yelling is happening. The person that is experiencing the shouting or the yelling or the seeming rejection is learning. This has nothing to do with me. I will do my work to the best of my ability. I will be accountable but it has nothing to do with me. Yelling is happening. Ted Henry: But then what should we do with our desire to help those people, the alcoholic on the ground in the alley and if we have a desire welling up inside of us to help that person. Might we be interfering with their role? Connie Shaw: Oh, I think that each person can only answer that for himself in the moment. I certainly would not presume to give any sweeping pronouncements about what anyone else should do because I have no idea and am just focusing on my own little life. I will say however that Baba gives us two main directives. They are very simple. He says Love All Serve All. Love is who you are. You are here to become self realized and in the mean time you can serve other people. That’s our task. I have neglected to say that service has been a very important part of our lives with Baba for the past nearly twenty years. I must say there has been no one serving. Who is it that thinks they are serving anyone. Baba doesn’t need us to serve. Its just that service happens for us. We don’t serve so that we can get points or that we can get grace, that’s not what happens. We serve because love comes from this heart to connect with another heart. We see that there is a need and we see that we have been offered the opportunity and blessing to fill the need in the moment. You know the course of miracles says that a miracle is when someone who temporarily has more, temporarily gives to someone who temporarily has less. So a person who is playing the role of a rich person or a comfortable person gives something to someone who is playing the role of a poor person. Someone who is healthy helps someone who is temporarily sick. We are not the sick person, we are not the poor person, we are not the incompetent person and we are not the mentally ill person, even though we may be playing those roles. We are divinity in disguise as those beings for the time being, for our healing and awakening and everyone else’s. Some of the other service projects that have taught us the wisdom of this and have taught us a great deal of discernment have been programs and singing for people in nursing homes, teaching Chinese Americans to speak read, write and spell English. We have served on the board of Rotary international. We have organized a blanket brigade for homeless people. We have organized a project where home less children could own their first book and actually possess it and read it and know it’s their very own book. We have worked with homeless children reading to them and cuddling them and talking to them. We have also worked with the Red Cross in mass care. We have worked with cleaning up the Putter River. We have helped in hospitals, we have helped in counseling, we have helped with healing modalities. We have worked with children, with old people, with shed ins with handicap people and on and on. That’s not important, the only thing that is important is that when Baba encourages us to do service and to do four hours of service a week minimally then when someone asks if we are doing service and we say yes then I think its important that we are able to walk the walk rather than just talking about it and to demonstrate that yes in fact we have taken up this labor of love enthusiastically for nearly twenty years and have done it with joy considering it actually a privilege and that again we ask the question, ‘Who is it that is serving who? Who is it that need serving?’ we are healed two by two so surely I have been blessed as everyone has who has had the opportunity to do any service to learn where my faults and fallibles and character defects have lain. So I have learnt most about my character defects through service and hope that I continue to have the opportunity to let other people teach me because teachers are all around me.

Ted Henry: You say we are healed two by two, does this mean that we shouldn’t receive from society, to go within by ourselves or use one another to help us travel within. We are healed, we grow two by two, I have heard you use that phrase, it’s a great phrase.

Connie Shaw: If I am counseling someone or Baba directs me to interact with them in a certain way and they suddenly say, ‘Oh, I have been healed, I used to have a terrible addiction and its come to me now that I have been healed,’ I know that I wasn’t doing the healing, I know that I am instrument and a more like a loudspeaker, an inert loudspeaker sound comes through the loudspeaker but certainly the loudspeaker can’t take credit for anything it just sits there and energy comes through. So its not that I feel I do anything but one thing I do know is that when people have told me that they have been healed at my workshops or talks or in the Sai meetings or in my presence after laughing nervously then I thank Baba and then I realize that I have also experienced the healing. Once there was a man who called me on the phone and in the call this man suddenly unaccountable told me that he had a profound pornography addiction. I said to him, ‘are you willing to have Baba lift that from you now?’ he said, ‘Yes, I am, I have lost my home, I have lost my wife I have lost my job, I have lost all of my money, I have spent a fortune on this monkey on my back, this monkey in my mind and I am desperate, I don’t know what to do,’ and he started weeping. I said, ‘Well, I know what to do, you know I can’t do anything for you but the lord can. So what I going to do is pick up this picture of Baba holding the golden lingam, do you know that picture? He said, ‘oh, yes, I do,’ I said, ‘How about if I hold it in my hand and I look at Baba and I just talk to him and you can listen and then if you put the telephone on your heart chakra, I will pray really strong to Baba that if its really right for right now that he lift this burden from you, you know you are just an actor in a play, you are not a person that has pornography addiction, you are a person in a play playing the role of somebody who has been plagued with pornography, do you understand that?’ he said, ‘yes, I like to believe that,’ so I said, ‘ Lord please heal this man, he is your son, he is beautiful, he is clean, he wants to be free, he is laboring under the delusion that he is helpless in the face of this addiction, we know that in some sense it is true and we know that only you can heal him now, fully cleanly, clearly, thoroughly in all aspects of his life would you do that now lord? Would you do that for him? Would you love him so much that you will lift this karma from his heart and his life so that he can go on and serve you in ways that we can’t even imagine? Would you do that lord please now if its your will? We are begging you lord. We know that may be it isn’t but if it is it would be tremendous and its not my business.’ So he put the phone on his heart and he began weeping almost uncontrollably sobbing and sobbing so I said, ‘What’s the matter what’s the matter, what happened?’ he said, ‘I am having a healing, I am having a deep and profound healing, its being lifted off of me, I can feel it.’ (She says pardon me, wiping her tears) and I said, ‘I can feel it too. Oh praise God, praise our beloved lord that he is removing this from you and do you know how beautiful you are? Do you know that you have always been beautiful and that you have always been blameless and that he has always loved you? do you know that?’ He said, ‘I feel it now, I feel it’, and I said, ‘thank you so much for calling me, we thought you were calling for a telephone number didn’t we? But Baba had other plans for us we didn’t know what a surprise it was. So I put the phone on the cradle just as I do and immediately something happened to me that I had read about. In reading many books about the lives of the saints not that I was a saint but this is what happened to them so I knew that this was something that happens to people. All of a sudden a tube of light came over me and I was rendered absolutely inert. I couldn’t move. I was sitting at my desk and there was a clock on the desk so I could see the time go by and I sat stork still unmoving for two hours. I was unable to move and as I was staring straight ahead with a Sai Baba lingam photo in my lap, I was given videos of people with pornography addictions and I saw them going to movie theaters and reading magazines and watching videos and I saw that they were son lonely and frightened and afraid and they felt very ashamed and very guilty and they couldn’t help what they were doing and they were so sad and they were hiding their shame from other people and they were losing their wives and their children and their jobs and their money and their dignity and their homes and they ended up on the street just like alcoholics and drug addicts as addictions of all sorts can end in death because the addiction is to the thoughts. Its not to a substance it’s to the thoughts about a substance whether it is a picture or movie or whether it’s a drink or a smoke or any sort of a drug or gambling, addiction to our thoughts and we are all addicted to our thoughts, our thoughts of suffering or our thoughts of excitement and joy and happiness that we think the outside forces will give us. After I had watched this video for two hours and could not move at the end of this time my heart chakra opened wide like a huge flower and I knew that I had been healed because I had harbored in my heart a prejudice against people that produce pornography, against people that act in pornographic films against people that buy pornography and dispense it and that this had been my judgment and I had a hard place in my heart about this so the healing was happening for me and that as that man had blessed me by calling me and he felt that he had been healed by Baba through our conversation, I knew that I was the great recipient of a healing because of my prejudice. I have no idea why pornography exists on the earth. I have no idea why we have alcohol and drugs and tobacco and why people seem to be killing their bodies with these things but I do know that many people that have been hopeless and helpless and have felt lonely and sick and sad and betrayed and lost are now awakening the world through their strength and hope and experience as they tell about diving down into the pits of despair and their addictions up into the glory of God and into the recognition that they are divinity. They only fell asleep for a while, a short while in time and they forgot that they are the light of the world as we all are. Yes, each of us is the light of the world and our wonderful opportunity is to help remind each other of that moment to moment. I wouldn’t give any broad prescriptions for what people should do or what you should do because only you and God know that but I do know that as I listen very carefully and I allow God to speak to me and I perform his perfect will for me that miracles happen and that I can’t take any credit for it. I sure enjoy being around when they happen.

Ted Henry: Using that word miracles about ten years ago in my life the course of miracles became evident to me. Its been a huge tool in helping me understand about my own projections. Its been enormously valuable on my spiritual path. Ho important has it come to you? Connie Shaw: as I said earlier, in studying the course of miracles for twenty years its helped me to see how misidentified I have been and how my desires haw my desires have actually been shadows to keep me out of peace. I see that every time I have been angry or confused or have felt unworthy that is my ego attacking me to keep me separate from the divinity that I am. Its been enormously important to me too and I know that there are many paths. The course of miracles says that of course but it is one of many. So I know that each person has their own correct path, own colleagues and compatriots on the path and that Baba has provided a huge number of religious and spiritual expressions for us on the planet in order that we might awaken. Audience: Have you had any experience with special love? As the course talks about it may be you could say something about it.

Connie Shaw: yes, yes, there is a concept in the course of miracles called ‘Special Love’. Special love means that we and others will project on each other. You know when the person is in the public eye at all; often times people develop a great many desires around them. They feel that if they are in the company of the person that they consider special, they will get something, they will be something better or something will accrue to them or its just imagination. They want that person to bless them. They want that person to heal them. They exalt them. They put them on a pedestal. When that person won’t do what they want then special love turns to special hate because their desires are not fulfilled they hate that person. This goes on all the time with all of us but it is usually repressed to the extent that it is just slightly below consciousness. I found that people have exalted me beyond all mortal comprehension and it’s been silly it’s been embarrassing. One of the most embarrassing things that ever happened to me, it really this was horrible, hilarious at the same time. You see I was doing some talks that I had been invited to in India, pardon me for Indian groups in Canada and you know Indians have the custom that when Indian children go to bed at night they bend down and touch their parent’s feet out of love and devotion and reverence. This is like we would hug and kiss each other at night, parents and children before going to bed or embrace and kiss each other in the morning before going to work and in the afternoon when we come home from work. Now also Indians touch the feet of masters. Indians believed that if you touch the feet of a perfect master that you will have the possibility of realization in this lifetime. Well, you know and I know I am not self realized. Well that was pretty funny when I was in this one particular venue and lines of people were forming around the huge auditorium, several hundred people and I was standing there after the talk asking whats happening now what are we supposed to get in line for and they started rushing up and said we are here here to touch your feet. I said, ‘Oh, no, Baba doesn’t allow that oh no, that would be disgusting. You don’t want my karma Oh, heavens please get away, you don’t want my karma. You know you only touch the feet of a perfect realized master. They said, ‘Are you denying us this,’ I said, ‘No, Baba is denying it. Baba says we are not to touch each other’s feet, we will get each others bad karma. I am still working on my own processes. Please don’t do this. Well they started crying and they bent down and I was grabbing their hands and we clunked heads and it was extremely embarrassing and they were having ………..that I should let them do this I said no, I can’t betray Baba this is not appropriate stop it right now. So this would be an example of extreme special love, of people thinking that this person is special we must exalt her. If we touch her in some way something good will happen to us. That’s sheer non sense and by the same token special love turned to hate right away. They were really mad at me. So see that’s an example that some people will revile us, some people will adore us and the same people will change their minds and flip back and forth. This is the nature of the mind. The nature of the mind is such that it is very fickle. Our job is to realize we are not the mind and to let the mind be cleansed and used as a very clear lens, like a beautiful camera, a beautiful telescope, that is our job. Ted Henry: Speaking about self realized you said very casually, I think I heard you, I am not sure how you pronounce her name ‘Byron Katie? Connie Shaw: Byron Katie, yes.

Ted Henry: You said very casually that she is self realized. How does she act as a self realized?

Connie Shaw: Byron Katie is self realized and one of God’s beautiful examples of a person who became self realized without a benefit of a teacher or a spiritual path and she had not gone to church. She had some addictions and she was a very lonely isolated person at certain times in her life as she tells it on audio and video, who had a compulsive overeating addiction and many other addictions. She suddenly woke up one day in a half way house forgot her name, had short term amnesia, forgot that she was married, forgot that she had three children. She eventually as a course of miracles student came to understand that we must question everything. Is this true? Next we must ask if I am feeling put upon or victimized or unfair against in any way what is my path? what am I getting out of this? If I dropped my story that I am being unfaired against or I am a victim then who or what I’d be? The answer is usually I’d be peaceful, I’d be free, I’d love my self more and I would love you more. I would just be happy. I would just be here. Am I willing to have these events come up over and over in my life so I can be free and get practice? Yes, can I look forward to it? Yes, that’s essentially ‘The Work’ in a nutshell. So how does Byron Katie act? I have no idea. All I know is when I have been with her in her workshop and I have seen her on videos she acts like an ordinary person but she has great clarity and focus and she is enormously funny and tremendously loving. So I assume that she is consistent like that in the rest of her life.

Ted Henry: forgive me for couple of cliché questions but there might be few questions for those people who have never heard you or read your book. Mary, could you describe her and does she have a sense of humor?

Connie Shaw: Oh, Mary has a wonderful sense of humor like all ascended masters. An ascended master is a being that is self realized and no longer identifies with ego. Ted Henry: She has a sense of humor? Connie Shaw: Oh, of course wouldn’t it be odd if she didn’t. When we understand that this is a play and that it’s a great joke and it’s all for god’s glory then we see that is pretty funny. Most people are walking around comatose walking around so seriously, taking everything so seriously, attacking each other, thwarting themselves through depression and all sorts of things. So, she has avery good sense of humor but she is also very compassionate. Now, how does she look? Mary is petite of frame, she has the most exquisite features, most beautifully modeled nose, beautiful rose bud shaped lips. She has tremendous radiance that is absolutely compelling and inspires devotion. She has themost delicate hands and delicate feet. Sometime she appears to be between 18 and 22 years old. She is beautiful in a way that is both physically appealing to us because she is so attractive, but her beauty far transcends the physical. It is a perfumed radiance that comes from her that essentially manifests as light. When she comes to me she comes in apparitional form and looks like a slight transparency, her gown is white and blue, her mantle is blue or white with a blue sash. Sometimes she appears standing on a cloud, sometimes surrounded by cherubs or angels, sometimes with roses, sometimes with baby Jesus, sometimes with adult Jesus, sometimes with St. Joseph and Jesus together. She also can come as a teacher and she can some with various messages, she can come in dreams or locutions which are inner messages, in visions, in a variety of ways. Then she can appear in trees or rooftops or inside buildings or outside. Several of our friends have seen Mary here and Mary has appeared to people that we know in this area. You know there are more than 400 Marian visionaries around the world, all very different from each other as surely you must know by now. They are young and old. They are simple and extremely intellectually gifted. They are educated and uneducated but the thing that they have in common is that they love their mother. They love Mary so much; they would do anything for her. Audience: One of the things that has attracted me immensely to Sai Baba is that he says, ‘happy, happy be very happy,’ and he emphasizes bliss and he is very funny. CS: Yes, Audience: That’s a form of God I had never thought of that appeals to me. We were in …………………… we read transcripts of messages from Mary and they spoke of Son, punishment and penance, ideas that I have come through Baba to think of as negative. CS: Are you wanting me to comment on that? Audience: why is she doing that? CS: I suppose we have to ask her that but my understanding is this. As Baba says be happy, happy, happy, we understand that he is taking care of us and if we leave our bodies that’s not so bad, that we live beyond that body. So he is urging us to get beyond body consciousness. We know that there are many different types of religions in the world and that people are at various levels of evolution. Now, if you were a college professor and you wanted to communicate with your little four year old next door neighbor boy you would talk to him very simply. If you wanted to talk to your housekeeper who came occasionally to clean your house you would be very specific in giving instructions to her about how you wanted the house to cleaned, especially if she were a simple person who was really uneducated. If one of your colleagues came for tea you would talk very differently to your colleague who was on the staff at your university than you would talk to your house cleaner or your four year old neighbor child. Now all four individuals have got within them, they are all divine but divinity is expressing itself as simplicity in a child, and somewhat simplicity in the house cleaner and perhaps erudition in the form of your colleague. As these Marian visionaries are of different level of consciousness they also have different educational backgrounds, different types of intellects. They have different types of cultural conditioning and different types of consciousness of themselves. Some believe in re incarnation some do not. Some have the consciousness of the world wide work, some are very recluse. Some have led the lives of shepherd children or the lives of nuns or monks or priests but the majority frankly are people who live in the world.

They are ordinary householders. So, Mary says she is available to everyone. When people believe through their cultural conditioning that they are sinners and that we are born in sin and that we must constantly pray to not feel sinful, then that cultural conditioning is a mindset or a framework with which Mary can speak to them. They have this language of thought, their belief system or world view is what we have just mentioned. So in order to reach them Mary must come into their consciousness, come in to their language or world view in order for them to understand her. If Mary spoke to them in the way she speaks to me they would not comprehend it. if she spoke to me the way she speaks to them I would just laugh because I have spent a life time feeling sinful and unworthy and part of my healing process is to know that while I had this very simple view of myself it was suitable for the time just as certain types of discipline are suitable for elementary children and high school children but eventually when they graduate they must go out in to the world and they must take their place along with their teachers and the high school principal as responsible citizens. So I have had to learn that for myself my consciousness has had to change. I have had to let go of limiting ideas about my self, limiting ideas about sin, limiting ideas about who is this thinking or asking this question? So I think its perfectly appropriate that Mary speaks to the Magegorian visionaries the way she does for their consciousness and the consciousness of the majority of people who speak that language, the majority of people who are perhaps practicing Catholics who are very fundamental in their beliefs. Now we know that Baba says that he is here to help us understand the ‘Fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of Man’ and that all paths lead to God, all religions are to God as long as they teach love. So I would not criticize Catholicism, I would not criticize Judaism, or Islam or Hinduism. I champion and celebrate every aspect of spirituality in the world as being perfect for the people that are learning through that form, that school that means for their awakening. I feel that it is thrilling and delightful that in this school of six billion people the Lord has provided us with myriad opportunities for our spiritual growth. So they are doing exactly what they need to do and I am doing exactly what I need to do. My hope is that we not compare each other or that we not judge each other and that we not try to invalidate each other or invalidate messengers or the messages but that we simply champion the fact that everyone has their small part in their play, they are doing it the best they can hopefully with a lot of joviality and good will.

Audience: Does this also account for how varying appearance around the world? She looks differently in Guadalupe, than what you describe and in majegoria they tell us that she has dark hair…

CS: Yes, yes, You know when Mary appears to people she doesn’t want to threaten them or frighten them. Its unusual enough to have a being suddenly appear from another realm or dimension in your living room and to be able to hold your sanity and keep from crying or laughing uncontrollably and to pay attention and listen to what she is trying to tell you. She appears to people in their racial configuration so that they will know that she is not a white woman who happened to be the mother of Jesus a long time ago who is coming to talk to them. That she is their very mother and that she looks like them. Most people are so body identified that they believe they are their bodies in their cultural conditioning so she has to overcome that. I think she does a wonderful job of overcoming their cultural conditioning, languages and all the different aspects of misidentification that we have. You know you don’t have just one dress in your wardrobe. If Mary wants to appear in white or blue or yellow or pink it’s certainly her right to do that now isn’t it? I think it would be rather boring to appear in the same outfit everyday or you know Sai Baba has orange robes and peach colored robes. He wears white for Christmas and for his birthday and inauguration he wars purple velvet, when he is inaugurating colleges and appearing in commencement exercises and so on. So you see they are entitled to have different outfits too just like we are.

Ted Henry: I feel like I am in holy space and I am just going to guess sai Baba has appeared to you in flesh in this room and Mary has and Jesus has and other ascended masters have. Do they come because you bid them? Do they come on an agenda or appointed point of time or do they come in some other fashion that is least expected?

CS: the latter. Mary has come to me in the many ways that I have already mentioned and most of all locutionally by giving messages that I receive telepathically in my ear and Jesus has come about twenty times and he usually doesn’t talk to me. He usually comes and smiles and sheds his love. Sai Baba usually has something he wants to tell me and as I said before its generally information sharings, sometimes a bit of a warning, a bit of a chastisement. Often times I like to make out that I am really a bad character and he is always chastising me that’s not really the case. He corrects me now and then. Generally I think he thinks these days that I am fairly much on the path and I know that I better be and I know that I will hear about it instantly if I am not. So I don’t call them in. they simply appear when they have something to tell me. So I am the recipient its always something that is quite surprising I can’t control it, I can’t cause it to happen, I can’t stop it from happening,it would just be as if a dignitary or two or three showed up at your door. You would be surprised, delighted, you would walk them in and you would wonder what they had to say to you. its like that, only much better

Ted Henry: Surprised? Please don’t take this as a stupid question, how do you refrain from being startled to death. I can’t imagine…..

CS: Oh, its been happening for a long time now, for about twenty years.

TH; the first time?

CS: the first time it happened I thought that this was a chance of a lifetime. I was thrilled that Mary came to me and I was just inordinately pleased and thought that she was coming to correct me because I was too serious and too intense and she told me to lighten up and be joyful, that joy was my birthright. Then she kept coming and coming so I thought I must really need a lot of help and then she said eventually after ten years that I had shown myself to be trustworthy and that she had a job for me, that I had not blabbed her appearances to all and sundry as she had cautioned me, that I had not told my parents and siblings and friends and children about this. Therefore I had passed a sort of initiation and could now take the next step in the spiritual life to be able to be entrusted with certain information that is earth change information, spiritual information and so on. She has told me since that I will continue to be a spiritual teacher with a world wide view, that healings will happen that other thing that you will consider too extreme to believe would happen. We will just see if they do but that this is all part of the great glory of God unfolding on the planet right now. So I know that I will be given the script when the time is ready for me step forward to say my lines in the play. Meanwhile I am minding my own business and just doing the best I can and when they come I am thrilled, not frightened, always thrilled, always blessed and usually I cry and I am so touched that they would even bother with me. I just cry and cry.

Ted Henry: You have been very gracious with your time and two or three final questions. Audience: What does Mary have to say about Sai Baba or does she?

CS: Mary says that Sathya Sai Baba is the planetary avatar and that he is her father, he is the creator of all. She loves him very much and Baba says that Mary is the mother of us all and he loves her very much and we all love each other. Its very simple. We don’t have to make artificial divisions or walls or create conflict out of the highest spirituality. Its very simple.

Ted Henry: Would you comment please on Prophecies that people are taking seriously to the extent where today it’s going in popularity to hear in the news that people are hoarding food and water in preparation for earth changes in the coming fulfillment of prophecies.

CS; I am not interested in that any more. I feel I did my job. Mary asked me to write a book about her prophecies, she has given me about a thousand prophecies. She said I could also give talks and workshops. I did that. She said that I could do audios and videos, I did that and I feel that I have done my job. She has more for me to say of her prophecies I will be sure to let you know. You will be the first to know but in the mean time as I understand my job right now its too not worry, not be concerned to know that there certain safe areas on the planet. Everybody is where they need to be and that there are people who are called lightworkers who have come into this embodiment like all of us and millions of millions of others to help with world upliftment and to assist during continuing unfolding of earth changes. So I’d rather not focus on that because I feel that Baba has a plan we will find it out. We are where we need to be and all is in divine order.

Ted henry; and my last question is Where are you today at this moment, may be another way of phrasing that is to look back over the past 5 months, 5 years, 15 years and spot one area in which you have experienced the most profound growth that’s made you the person today. That’s been more important to you than all the other things.

CS: I don’t like to differentiate it like that. I try to be in the moment as much as possible and I feel that I have just been spending a lot of time working on my character defects, that I have had a tremendous amount of grace from Baba, he has healed me innumerable times, he has saved my life on many occasions and that I am just simply chopping wood and carrying water. I am just plugging along like everyone else and trying to skip and sing as I go but I would just like to say that for me its like this, he has a saying that I love so much its that ‘when there is righteousness in the heart there will be beauty in the character’.

I am working on establishing the righteousness in the heart and also realizing he has always been there because love is who we are. ‘When there is beauty in the character there will be harmony in the home’, I have worked over 19 years with my beloved husband Jim to create harmony in the home by looking at my projections and praying to have them healed. I have worked very hard to develop a loving relationship with my step children and their wives and my son and his wife and with my parents and his siblings and people that I interact with everyday. ‘When there is order in the home there will be order in the nations when there is order in the nations there will be peace in the world’. I feel that I am doing my small part for peace in the world by continuing to stay connected with peace in my heart. If I fall out of peace in the moment, I can always come back to peace in the heart at any moment. That’s my only job to stay peaceful and connected and to let you know in case you have forgotten that you are love itself and you are the light of the world.

you very much I have enjoyed this tremendously.

Ted Henry: Thank You!