Written by Ted Henry and Jody Cleary on . Posted in Transcriptions


Amma speaks a lot about Sai Baba here and how Sai Baba held her in His arms as an infant, when Baba visited the family home.

To see the Amma video interview, click here:

By Ted Henry and Jody Cleary [opening video: Music playing. Mary Fran and Jody softly speak with Amma]


Amma: “All the people out there are so Divine, so Divine. Yesterday I spoke with all the people, how Divine. I know, they are I know, I know all the people; nobody ever speaks untruth in front of your Mother…. “ [Amma hugs Jody and takes Mary Fran’s hand] “ So….

Look at the sweetness of my angels“ Amma hugs Mary Fran. Mary Fran: Thank you so much Amma Amma: My mission is; just bring happiness to everybody. No expectations from this world. I’m not expecting anything from anybody. Just I want to give my love to all my people. I love this world so much. Amma: Mother Earth is unhappy. The oil spilling is not the man made disaster at all. It is the Mother unhappiness.

We have to love our Mother Earth. Amma: The main aim of the human life is to attain Truth. So there are some people who already attained that. So they are enjoying the Truth. They are like spectators in the world. They are not participating in any of these things. They are just like witnessing all these things.

Ted: How would we identify them, would they have any judgments?

Amma: Son, they are detached to everything. Not emotional. Ted: No anger? Amma: No anger. No trace of anger in their life. So that is salvation. Salvation means; liberation!

Ted: No desires?

Amma: No desires. No desires.

Ted: What can you say that can be useful to people who are doubters, agnostics or atheists?

Amma: This is also beautiful question. The thing is: we have to open our hearts more. When we open our hearts, things will change. Amma: No need to go anywhere in the world, you will feel God’s presence within your heart. Once you are able to feel God’s presence in your heart, you are able to feel God’s presence everywhere.

Ted Henry: Welcome to Souljourns! This interview with Amma Sri Karunamayi was recorded in June of 2010 in Cleveland Ohio. This is the second Souljourns interview with Amma. [music in background] [ Interview begins in full ] Ted: Amma Sri Karunamayi, thank you so much for coming to this our Cleveland. Welcome to our city again. Amma: Thank you so much Ted: You see we have a sunny warm day for you. We like very much when you come to Grace us with your Presence. Why do you choose to come to Cleveland? Amma: Total world is, according to the Sanathana Dharma a beautiful one home. So I am in my beautiful home, from one room to other room, I’m here in Cleveland. Ted: Do you feel equally at home here as you do in your ashram in India? Amma: Yes, yes. Absolutely.

Ted: Do you find people here, even though we are in a different culture, many people come from different religions……

Amma: It doesn’t matter whatever the religions they may be. Everybody is praying, going towards Almighty only. So that is why there is no friction at all.

Ted: You said something the other night that was a very powerful comment about the pain in the world today. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think I heard you say that there are women dying every several seconds because of hunger, because of starvation. What can we do? I know we’re helpless to feed everyone who is dying. But what can we do for those souls that are leaving their bodies because of starvation?

Amma: Really, I am very very sorry about this. The United States is a very wealthiest country. But when you see the data base of people, lot of people are suffering. So much poverty in our country. Sixteen years or more. I was traveling in United States, I spoke with thousands of people personally. I love them so much. A lot of people are in their afternoon lunches just only, not even a sandwich. Just a small little bread., and they have no money to buy a coffee also they told me. I was so sad to listen to the pathetic stories directly from people. Not from one, not from a hundred. Thousands of stories. Pathetic stories. Very pathetic stories, including with the children, suffering so much, so much. When we see agriculture fail, a lot of women they [are] supporting even agriculture in our country. All over the world also. And coming to the women, every three seconds one woman is dying of starvation. It is very pathetic and we are very sorry for this. So how to bring all the people of this world to support them? All of us can work on this. This is our duty. To support our children, our women, our family members. In my feeling, total world is one family. There is no second thought in my heart, is one family. So all the continents are one and one rooms in this family. We have to love each other, we have to support each other. We have to honor everyone’s faith also. So coming to the starvation and dying of the women. So you can see the data base of the world hungry problems and also how many people are suffering exclusively in the United States, suffering with poverty, below poverty level. Millions of people are suffering.. People are never going to imagine that. But this is true. We have to work hard. We have to bring more harmony, wealth to our people. We need understanding and supporting of our people for jobs and for education. And also supporting the women is very essential right now.

Ted: Amma, there seems to be political solutions people could work for, and spiritual solutions people could work for. In this later category, which is more effective, to pray for those who are suffering, the women who are dying of starvation or people living below poverty, or to send them love? There’s a difference, and some people say “just send them love”. What would you suggest we do?

Amma: My expectation is; we have to mix both. We have to mix the both. Like political support and also spiritual support. Moral support. And all the people also can support everybody. Not only the responsibility of the political, not only the responsibility of the spirituality, we have to blend both together with a lot of love and responsibility and duty. We have to support all these problems.

Ted: I’d like to ask you a spiritual question about a problem that looks like it’s a man made problem. But I heard you say the other night that it’s not a man made problem. We’re in America, June of 2010, everybody is aware of the gulf oil spill. It’s a catastrophe. You surprised me the other night when you described it not as a man made problem , but a problem with nature, Mother Nature. Could you talk about that from a spiritual point of view?

Amma: When we see the gulf oil spills from the oil well it is so sad. Very sad. In our twenty first century the most bad disaster happen. A lot of people are speaking about this, this man made disaster. But in my heart it is not man made disaster. Before also, they put a lot of oil wells around the world for oil.

They are doing all these years, all these times. But this time, unfortunately it was happen like that. I think it is not man made disaster at all. It is like a…like Mother Earth is so unhappy. Mother Earth is….we have to honor Mother Earth. We have to honor water. We have to honor all the trees, …Nature. When we see that for each and very hour we are using more than 2.5 million of the plastic bottles…just for one hour. Imagine for twenty four hours how many bottles we are using. Imagine how much, calculate how much plastic bottles we are using for one year. Like this on all the continents and countries. These plastic bottles are never going to merge with Mother Earth. And sometimes we put all the ,um like, you know the computers, we put, we dump in the oceans. So we are so mercilessly using our Mother Earth. Mother Earth is giving, giving, giving. All the sources we are using mercilessly like anything.

Today, Mother Earth, is, she is not able to give anything. She remains with empty hands. So we are digging the wells. Like so many wells. Like a lot of mines, mining all over the world. We never dig the mines in the proper way. So these kind of things we are doing in the entire world. Mother Earth is so unhappy with our merciless heart. So that is why, Mother Earth is unhappy. The oil spilling is not the man made disaster at all. It is Mother unhappiness. We have to love our Mother Earth. Make Mother Earth happy.

Give her respect towards water, trees, animals, birds. Women, children, men, everybody. The entire creation comes from God. When we honor this creation, God is happy. Mother Earth is happy. So we are part and parcel of this creation, everybody. So they have to honor each other. Now, we lost our human touch, unfortunately. We miss our human touch. We need to cultivate again the affection between heart to heart. The golden link between heart to heart. We have to love each other. We have to honor each other. We have to live peacefully on this Mother Earth. We must not run, run, run only for money’s sake. We have to run for human values and Inner values sake.

That is so beautiful for mankind. So it doesn’t matter what we believe, what religion, what faith we are going towards. But everyone is going towards Almighty One. To Peace only. So that is why, when we love each other, when we understand each other, harmony and love remains in the society. We will help each other, then peace comes in the society; these kinds of disasters are never going to happen. However people are working on that. It is so hard for them. Technology today it is so great. But, however they are working, they are not able to do that because this is not the human disaster. It is unbelievable unhappiness in Mother’s heart. We have to make Mother happy. To live in this world with harmoniously and with understanding hearts. And helping each other, that is very essential for all of the people in the world.

Ted: It’s my impression that there are still many people in this world today who think of Earth as an inanimate object. Sometimes they use a cliché and refer to this planet as Mother Earth. But you are recommending for all of us to believe in Mother Earth as a living being, aren’t you? Amma: Yes, there is life in the Panchabhuta. There is life in the water, there is life in the air, there is life in the fire, There is life in Mother Earth. So that is why we call, not just earth, ‘Mother Earth’ Just not earth, she is giving so much to us. Giving so much, all the food, all grains, flowers, what all the things we are using everything comes from Mother only, her lap only.

baba1So that’s why we have to honor mother like our own biological mother. “ Aham putrasia buhme mataha……” / “I am the son of Mother Earth.” This is the feeling in the Rig Veda; I am the son of Mother Earth. So everybody is also the children of Mother Earth. So between children and children, they must not quarrel with each other. We have to live harmoniously, friendly and helping each other, loving each other. We have to live in this world to bring more progress in the world. So that is important. So that is why when we are all the time quarreling with each other Mother Earth is naturally unhappy, no? Ted: We have Jody here and Mary Fran here who both have some questions that they would like to ask . One from Mary Fran has to do with what you had to say about the use of words. How we use them. Would you talk a little bit about what you mean when you suggested that we talk we think ten times before we speak using words, and that we think one hundred times before writing negative words. What do you mean? Amma: Sometimes people are very rushed to speak something, without thinking anything. When there isn’t something which is sometimes not also real. But they are speaking about that, so that is why we are missing so many good friends. Without thinking anything, speaking unusual words, and discomfort able thinking, feelings, which is really not fair. Before talking, twice, thrice, ten times, we have to think about that. The word is a great power in our world. It’s a great power in the world. Sometimes people will mention some very negative words. I heard people come to suicide. A comfortable word gives us inspiration, give life to people. So that is why we have to think before speaking anything. Twice, thrice, ten times. Before writing anything . Writing good things, very nice. Writing angry things, ten times, twenty times, one hundred times, we have to think about that. That is so beautiful. Ted: When I asked you that question you laughed, you had a little chuckle. What makes you laugh? You have such a beautiful way of expressing your whimsical humorous look at life. What makes you laugh? Amma: Some people without thinking are talking, so that is why. You were asking me that. [laughing] Ted: You know some spiritual teachers have described the state of equanimity. Tell me if I have it right from your perspective. That we, walking the earth, can choose to live at the level of pain and suffering. Sometimes we are fortunate enough to live at the level of happiness and joy and peace. But those who evolve spiritually to the highest level live at the level of equanimity above both pain joy and peace. Do I have that right, is that the level of spiritual progress we are aiming to achieve? This level of spiritual equanimity? Amma: Yes. Your question is a beautiful question. When people are meditating and then they are going different different levels. And then they achieve some highest consciousness level. They feel eternal happiness, boundless happiness. They don’t like to come from that state down towards the human level, human thoughts. But my mission is different. I feel, everybody is in Myself. I am in all living beings. That is my feeling. That’s my experience. I am in all, all is in Me. That’s why I love this world so much. If anybody is suffering I feel their suffering. If anybody is cutting the trees, I feel, it is cutting like my own fingers in my hand. I feel that pain in my body. If anybody is hurting any women, I feel. That is the pain, my pain. If anybody feel happy, I feel, that is my happiness. So that’s why, my mission is just bring happiness to everybody. No expectations from this world, I am not expecting anything from anybody. Just I want to give my love to all my people. I love this world so much. Ted: There is much discussion in groups of people who are on the spiritual path. Some people talk about what their books teach them and their teachers explain to them. That we are living in a dream world. This is an illusion. This is maya. It’s a very difficult concept for anybody to understand in the west. Do I have it correct that we are living in the illusion that we are not God and that we are being called to identify that God is in us. That out true identity is God? And that our one chore is to awaken from that dream? It’s so difficult for people to understand. How would you describe this concept? Amma: This is also a very nice question, a good question. An interesting question. In the spirituality there are innumerable levels of maturity. So if you are a small baby bud, you can’t expect beautiful fragrance and so many pedals in that it is a baby bud. If the bud become a little bit mature, then it look anther different way. A different angle. When it is totally mature, the flower is blossoming in such a way! So that’s why . Spirituality there are innumerable levels. The difference is on the maturity of our Inner Self. If you are mature, some children are from the beginning of their life they are very mature . They are understanding. What is going around them, they are seeing everything but missing everything. And then they are not much attached with all the path of things in the external life. They are more attached with inner self. Because everything is inside only. He who have that insight, he will experience the highest level of Truth. So that’s why this insight never comes to all people. That’s why the confusion. Questions; is it maya, some people mention, some people mention this is true. It depends upon the maturity, when we’ve got maturity we live in this world and we never say. Everything is God only. Everything is God. Ted: we never say that?] Amma: Everything is God only, that is the feeling that comes in life. That is the experience that come in the life. There is no reality at all, there is no maya, there is nothing. Everything is God ‘s leela only. So you love this world so much, You enjoy this world so much you want to do something for this world. So you never say this is nothing, this is empty. Yes there is little bit of emptiness externally, but when you touch the internal world, the external world is also so beautiful. So beautiful. God is operating; trees are God, plants are God, grass blade is God , pebbles are God. All the atoms are God. Planets are God.Panchabhuta, the sky , Mother Earth, everything is only consciousness, only consciousness. We have to grow towards that level. That is important. That there is no friction, there is no questions, but that they need meditation more. Ted: You have talked about this several times Amma, referring to it as levels of spiritual growth. Are these all attainable in this lifetime, in one lifetime? Amma: Yes, yes exactly. It is attainable in this lifetime, but they need a little bit of intense love towards God. Ted: There seems to be very very very few people that we are aware of that reach the ultimate level of enlightenment. Of self realization or moksha. Is that a goal people can realistically can strive for this lifetime? Amma: Yes, the main aim of the human life is to attain Truth. So there are some people who have already attained that. So they are enjoying the Truth. They are like spectators in the world. They are not participating in any of these things. They are just like witnessing all these things. Ted: How would we identify them, would they have any judgments? Amma: Son, they are detached to everything. Not emotional. Ted: No anger? Amma: No anger. No trace of anger in their life. So that is salvation. Salvation means; liberation! Ted: No desires? Amma: No desires. No desires. Ted: How do they take care of themselves in this lifetime? Amma: It is automatic and natural like you are how you are breathing yourself. Naturally it is functioning They are not putting attention on that, on breathing or not. No attention on that. Similarly, taking care of body is natural. It is just part of life like breathing. But main attention is on absolute happiness. Boundless happiness, Truth. Ted: I know one of the means to attain this level, you talk about it every time you are here , that I’ve seen you talk about it in multiple sessions, is the need to practice meditation. And yet as you know, so very well, for the western mind, that seems practically impossible. How can people realistically achieve progress in meditating? Amma: I’m traveling sixteen years, son, all over the world. You spoke about western mind, eastern mind, no? I never feel that difference. A lot of western children are very sweet. Sages! Beautiful souls, very beautiful souls. They are seeking really for truth. They are meditating so much. They have a lot of internal love towards God. They are very __callcient ___people. Very beautiful people. why it doesn’t matter where ever we are born. Where ever we are in any country in any continent. The thing is, how we are living our life. What is the destination, what is the purpose of life ? A lot of people have got that question. They gott the answer, they are traveling already on the spiritual path. I have seen that, so many souls my son. Ted: Jody has a couple of questions: You are expecting a golden age of peace and joy soon,. Are you expecting this to happen in the near future? That we often hear and read about, is the end of the Kali Yuga soon to be upon us? Amma: Are you speaking about the calendar that is going to be end in 2012? Ted: No, I don’t think I’m talking about that, but comment on that as well as I think a lot of people do wonder about that. Amma: Okay [big grin] It is the end of ignorance and the starting for knowledge. Ted: Say that again. Amma: It is the end of ignorance and the starting of Supreme Knowledge. Ted: Very good. So we have to be asking ignorant questions before we get to the true understanding? [both laugh] Amma: When we are meditating in silence, all the questions are subsided inside. You are growing and stepping one by one all the steps of spirituality. All questions you’ll get response from your Self only. Any meditate also, in any faith also. Ted: Any faith? Amma: Any faith any faith people… Ted: No need to change your religion? Amma: No need to change the religion. Ted: No need to come to your ashram? Amma: No need to come to My ashram. No need to come to see me. Because you feel God is all pervasive as everywhere. When you are a true disciple if you believe really God, you feel this creation comes from God. When you see the mountain colors, it is not human creation. When you see Mount Kailash , it is not human creation. When you see the snow mountains, it is not human creation. All this creation comes from God. All the living beings comes from God. All the beautiful trees, bird kingdom, animal kingdom, the entire universe is the creation of God only. So that’s why, when you really believe that, you are able to love God’s creation. You are able to honor God’s creation. No need to go anywhere in the world. You feel God’s presence in your heart. Once you feel God’s presence in your heart, you are able to feel God’s presence everywhere. Everything. Ted: So beautifully expressed. It leads directly to the second that question Jody asked. And I ask it too. Amma, how can we know if we are progressing spiritually as we are meant to? She says sometimes she knows she’s on the correct spiritual path, and other times she feels she is not even close to it. That’s a common feeling for people. How do we know if we a progressing spiritually in the right way? Amma: Very beautiful question. So many circumstances around everybody. In the circumstances when we are relating in some very selfish way, any activities, then we are not progressing in our spiritual path. When we are in circumstances, in good circumstances, any hard circumstances; very selfless, and very kind, and very compassionate, noble, and very sincere. Inside, out side, before, behind the curtain, all the time we are very sincere with inner beauty, selflessness. When ever you get more selflessness, you are progressing in your spiritual path. Whenever we are selfish, we are going downwards. So ups and downs, ups and downs. So that’s why selflessness is the greatest attribute. Going closer and closer to the Supreme Truth. Self. So that is the progress. We can easily know about our self, how it is like seeing yourself in the mirror. So you are seeing yourself in your heart. If we are very selfish, we have not much progress. Whenever we are selfless, progress comes in the Light. Egolessness. Selflessness is giving us egolessness. Like the ego must die in meditation, that beautiful. Ted: That’s beautiful. Two more questions. The second to the last question has to do with people who want to believe many times but are doubters, skeptics , maybe they are agnostics or maybe sometimes they are atheists. They will look at some of these stories such as yours and they will wonder out loud; ‘ maybe you know something that they don’t know’. What can you say that can be useful to people who are doubters, agnostics or atheists? Amma: This is also beautiful question. The thing is: we have to open our hearts more. When we open our hearts, things will change. In a different angle. When we see in our limited vision, things seem to be suspected and we never get the truth. We have to open our heart to see anything also. Then only Truth is visible in a very glory full way. Ted: The final question Amma is, does everybody get there? Does everybody achieve their Moksha, their Divine Oneness with the only on spiritual being; God? In the end, even people who lead a life that they would admit is a negative life or a harmful life, do they get there too? Amma: God is so kind and so gracious and all encompassing, so incomprehensible. God never , never keeps a record of wrong. It will take some time for them. For their maturity. When they get proper maturity, they will get liberation. Everyone’s destination is only the Almighty Supreme Truth. Ted: Everyone’s destination is only …. Amma: Everyone is going to get there one day. It will take time. It will take time. They need some time to open their hearts. So some people have opened their hearts from the beginning of their life, and some people it will take time. They are not ready right now. When they are ready, they will come. Ted: And your parting words for the people of Cleveland and the people of America as you move on to your next city. Your parting blessing or words for us please. Amma: I love mankind so much. Because the total universe is nothing but the existence of the Divine only. So that’s why, I love. There are of course some mistakes and other things also in our world. I love the mankind including with the mistakes and all the things. I have so much honor, love, unbelievable love towards the people. So that’s why, My Love to all the people. Just only the Love. Without any expectations. Just I Love you so much. So I want to see all of you, the total society, with the great inner wisdom., and inner beauty people in the society. Then the society will become strengthened. If all the people are all the time unhappy, discontentment, dissatisfaction, deceiving each other and speaking untruth, not fair. This kind of things are in the society still it is going to be weak society. I want to see the human society with the strength of society with all the attributes. So that is why it doesn’t matter, I already told you, what you believe, but everybody believe only the Oneness of Supreme Truth Almighty. Then you can proceed in your faith, attain truth, experience supreme happiness, immortality in this life time. And share your love with all the world. That is my wish for all the people in the world. I love you, than you so much. Thank you so much. Ted: Amma Sri Karunamayi thank you so much, we love you so very very much. Won’t you please come back to Cleveland soon? Amma: Thank you so much, Cleveland is so beautiful . Here when we did last year program and this year program also all the Cleveland people have very open hearts. We never see this kind of beauty anywhere. Very special people, very special souls. I love Cleveland so much. So much feeling comes in my heart. In the future I want to come again and again to see al of my Cleveland babies. I love you so much babies! 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