~~ SOULJOURNS TRANSCRIPTIONS ~~
(What follows is lengthy, the unedited interview with Sai devotee, Nooshin Mehrabani from Iran, First Interview recorded in Prasanthi Nilayam, India, 2008)
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~~~~~~~~~~ LOVE ALL ~ SERVE ALL ~~~~~~~~
NOOSHIN: I live in my teacher’s house don’t forget. You know I mean Swami has been like a tutor, a personal tutor to me. He took my hand he showed me every single step of the way.
TED: She is the author of the book, Love And Suffering - My Road to Liberation. Nooshin Mehrabani, an Iranian Muslim who worked for the national radio and television services of Iran tells her story of how she first learned of Sri Sathya Sai Baba of India and how her life has been transformed by his teachings. This video interview was recorded in Prashanthi Nilayam, Sai Baba’s ashram, in southern India in December of 2008.
NOOSHIN: I always say there are three stages when you come to know god. The first stage is when you don’t know anything about god you just listen, sit down and listen to others. There is a second stage, you know a little bit about god and you talk, talk, talk about what you know and the third stage where you don’t have anything to say because everything goes internal and you know there is not so much to say. I think I am between the second and third stage.
TED: You still have something to say.
NOOSHIN: I still have something to say and to share. I would love to share if there is anything I can say about Swami. My whole life is about Swami. I live here in Puttaparthi now for two years and with Swami’s will and his decision of course. I am very happy and I am over all the suffering I had in my life. I am very distant from my past and rarely I think I was the same person who was playing the role in this book and I am observing like a witness how the whole thing happened to me in the past.
TED: Both of those words are very important to me. I use them a lot. I try to be a witness or an observer to life without registering its emotions whether it’s bad or good. To familiarize anyone who is watching this with just a little bit about your background- you have two components, which are most intriguing to me. You have much karma with two terrible marriages, great difficulties living in Tehran. The fall of the Shah of Iran. The immigration to America and to Canada. Married twice to Iranians, one of whom is a Sai devotee and you correct me if I am wrong they both ended disastrously and all the while the second major component is how close you’ve been and continue to be to Swami. I am not sure if I am aware of anybody else who I would call have had your good fortune to be so close. I would say dozens of interviews and hundreds of visitations in your dream life and dozens of materializations. You are beyond counting, but for the benefit of those of us who still wonder why, can you give us a little background about how many visits you have had of swami in the flesh? How many dreams you have had? How many materializations you have had?
NOOSHIN: Well, these are just part of my dreams in this book related to the story I wrote. I had many, many dreams. There was a time when I came to know of Swami five nights a week I had dreams of Swami and in one night sometimes I had I had two three different dreams. Umm, I really don’t have an answer why swami connected with me in my dreams. I have no answer. You should probably ask him. Who we are playing a role in this body in this lifetime we really don’t know our past karmas or past life with Swami with God. I think I have been somebody very close to God who adores God who loves God. This is not something that can come to you in one lifetime.
TED: You are a Muslim and I would think that would present an even greater challenge to people discovering Swami because for most Muslims and most people who follow Islam they pay strict attention to the law and don’t deviate from it. So, how did Swami allow you to find him as a good Muslim?
NOOSHIN: Well, good Muslim you said. Who says I was a good Muslim? My family was not even very religious-you know, but that also helped me get closer to Swami because I was very empty when I came to Swami and he could fill me with whatever is necessary for me to learn and experience and how I came to Swami I didn’t decide - I didn’t make a decision. I was not even looking for the teacher. Maybe my soul was looking, but don’t forget my mind didn’t know my atma. My mind only thing I could identify was my body and nothing else.
TED: Wasn’t that the case for all of us? Our mind doesn’t know our atma.
NOOSHIN: Yes, but sometimes God knows the atma. He knows how ready you are. You are like a ripened fruit he comes and picks you. I was ready without me knowing it. I didn’t know I was ready.
TED: So, this was from another lifetime that you performed so much karma in addition to the karma from this lifetime. You were ready even in the beginning of this lifetime it appears because even with so many blessings from Swami there was still much painful karma for you to burn away.
NOOSHIN: Yes, I think those karma was necessary in my life. I learned about life and I learned to discriminate. That helps me a lot. I don’t regret what I went through in my life. All those sufferings, everything with Swami’s grace I am so beyond all that pain.
TED: This is so important, which is why I am going to spend an extra minute with this.
Why would you not regret so much pain for so many years?
Awful marriages. Why would you not regret that?
NOOSHIN: I don’t regret that because when you are experiencing something good or bad in life, pleasure or pain you think that is life. That is all you see is that around you. You don’t see anything else. Maybe because I was not comparing my life with anybody else. Maybe I was so deep inside somehow content with this scenario of my life. This is me this is my destiny. I went through. Not because I was accepting this pain. No, I wanted to come out of it all the time. I was trying so hard, but in another way I was accepting the destiny which maybe the same as karma. Destiny we call it in Islam, but in Hindu philosophy they call it karma. It’s almost the same it’s not different.
TED: So, they see it in a similar way in a similar context. Back one second to why you in addition to the countless dreams in which Swami comes. Swami has told you in person that those dreams are real. He has verified them to you as you write in your book. He described situations that were occurring in your dream through Swami to you and he described them in the flesh to you and then all of the visitations. I remember reading one account you had where I think I counted five interviews you had in one visit and this would be repeated over and over and over and all the materializations is something we don’t talk about as much as perhaps we once did as Swami devotees. Those can’t be ignored either so the fundamental question is: Why you? WHY you?
NOOSHIN: Why not me?
TED: Why not me. Is a very good answer. Have you asked yourself that question?
NOOSHIN: Because you see me as now as a - you are identifying me as a Muslim woman sitting in front of you.
Ted: Of course, you are much more than that.
NOOSHIN: I identify myself as the atma, which is not different from other ones, and I think we all deserve to have the experiences. I feel extremely fortunate to have this opportunity and Swami told me in one of my dreams that you have good karma. We forget that good karma is nothing else in this lifetime. All the past karma all the suffering is not really important. This comparing what we have. We are close to the living God.
TED: You have no doubt about that?
NOOSHIN: No doubt and what else can be important. You know nothing else can be important.
TED: He says it is not important to come form America, to come from Europe to be near to Sai. So how do you reconcile that? You are by his side and you are close to all of this energy and this love. For those people who might see this and who can’t afford an airplane ticket from wherever, from South America, from America that come here. Is it important?
NOOSHIN: It is important. Always it is important. When God takes form it is important to experience his happiness, his joy. You are just so close to this love which is a magnet and same time I ask Swami if one day I have to live in Puttaparthi with you in Prashanthi please help me to find my happiness inside the heart before I come to live closely with you. Because I didn’t want my happiness to depend even on his form. I didn’t want my happiness to depend on living in Puttaparthi. Because I know so many devotees now living here I have met so many people. I see so many of them they say we are very happy when you are in Puttaparthi, we are very happy in Brindavan, Swami. When we go back it is different experiences and different life. If Swami lives very deep inside the heart we have this happiness wherever we are. For me the last place I was living outside of India was Vancouver, Canada and I was happy, as I am happy here.
TED: It is a beautiful city. You have Sai devotee friends in Vancouver. Ahaha!
NOOSHIN: Yes, My Sai family in Vancouver know how happy I was and of course during the period of my second marriage and separation I went through so much difficulty, but inside, deep inside because I lived with that love I lived with Swami I talked to him all the time.
TED: That’s the message I think I am picking up and that Jody has already learned that lesson pretty well and I seem to be picking up that message here so many times Swami seems to have an agenda for all of us here every time we come here- a lesson to learn. I am hearing that over and over. So, let’s pursue that for a second. When do you not talk to Swami or think of Swami?
NOOSHIN: I think, in waking stage almost all the time. In dream stage, not so much ever, but it seems my subconscious and conscious are becoming one and that’s why I have so much dream about swami. In deep sleep of course there is no dream or nothing we are just - its nothingness actually, complete silence. It’s all God. But, in dream stage usually it is no different from my wakening stage- it’s the same way I think, the same way I observe in life. In the dream stage always the same not so much different.
TED: As a devotee who has grown so close to swami in your mind and your heart. How long have you lived here full time?
NOOSHIN: Full time for two years.
TED: Two years. And, Could you describe what a typical day is like for you here?
NOOSHIN: Some of the days are not so easy. Don’t forget this is an extreme workshop here.
TED: This is very much a workshop.
NOOSHIN: I can describe this way. When you go to a school you go sometimes in the day you go for eight hours you go sit in a classroom you learn. Then the teacher comes, teach you the lesson and gives you homework. You come home you still have your own life, you can watch TV, do your homework and socialize, but can you imagine you go and live in your teacher’s house. I live in my teacher’s house. You know I mean-nothing is in my hands. He makes all the decisions. Especially people are very close is a kid to him. They should understand that their life is not theirs anymore. It is his life through you.
TED: Let me ask you about that because your book is filled with wonderful one on one encounters. I know you have served as a translator for this Iranian group and that Iranian group and you have had many occasions where he calls you by yourself, but these days Swami does not grant nearly as many interviews or even show his form as much. Do you still get interviews?
NOOSHIN: I get “inner” views. Maybe it is hard to believe I still have dreams even though I live here. Swami comes into my dreams. I remember 3 months ago I had a very bad cold and here you are family, but actually you don’t have anybody and I live here by myself and if I don’t come out of my apartment nobody knows what is happening to me. I was so desperate. I didn’t know what I should do, what medicine I should use, but it is not stopping runny nose, fever and everything. Swami at night came to my dream and he manifested an orange for me in my dream and then after he gave me orange he gave me vibuthi like he prescribed what is good for me. Immediately, I left I went to the village I found exactly same size, same color orange. I bought it and I used it and I used vibuthi water, which I love vibuthi water. I felt better immediately. That was how he is my doctor-everything. Recently, my experiences I was telling about how he connected with my mother through the phone, when I didn’t have that phone number.
TED; Briefly, summarize it. I understand that just the other day your telephone rang, your cell phone rang and there was some confusion because instead of somebody on the other side that wanted you to pick it up from here. It wasn’t somebody calling you. It was some television signal from Iran and then you heard your mother pick up the phone as if you were calling her, but you weren’t because she has a new cell phone and you don’t even have her number. And she couldn’t believe that you were calling here because she knows that you don’t have her number it is almost as if it was a leela for your mother’s benefit. Did I capture that more or less right?
NOOSHIN: Yes, exactly correct. My telephone rang and I picked up the phone and I am hearing the Iranian TV in the background and after sometime someone said Hello, Hello and I heard my mom’s voice and my mom was so happy to hear my voice and said, “Oh my love, Why did you call my cell phone?” I said, “Mom do you have a cell phone?”
TED: You would have called her on her landline before.
NOOSHIN: Yes, she had two landlines before you know. I said mom, “Do you have a cell phone?” And she said, “yes, I recently purchased a cell phone.” And I said, “I don’t have your phone number. How could I call you when I didn’t have your cell phone number?” And then she said, “How did you call?” You know she was not getting it. It is hard for them when you don’t believe in Swami they don’t believe in also these miracles.
TED: The important part of this was, days before or some months before perhaps your mother pleaded for you to come home. She is in her late seventies and you chose to listen to Swami who came in your dreams and said NO! And that was of course very hard for you.
NOOSHIN: Yes, Swami told me not to go to Iran and see your mom because probably Swami was using me as a bait to bring all my family here at his feet. I told my mother when she asked me why don’t you come to Iran. I asked her why don’t you come to visit me here? Everybody can come here and immediately she said when? She didn’t even think about it. I said Mom, not in November and December it is very busy time. Come in January. Immediately after a week she called and said she will come on January 2nd.
TED: She is coming in January.
NOOSHIN: January 2nd for two weeks.
TED: Has she come here before?
TED: This is her first visit after all these years that you have been a swami devotee. Of course you have had many Sai Baba activities, Sai center activities in Tehran, which were undoubtedly against the law. You have gone to Sai centers wherever you have lived from Vancouver to the US and what not. I want to go back to the question which you carefully did not answer and that is: If I were sitting in your shoes I would have been thoroughly spoiled by Swami coming to me in the flesh in Prashanthi Nilayam in the interview room time and time again and yet does it bother you or does it not bother you that he is not coming to almost anybody right now including you.
NOOSHIN: Well, it was hard in the first place because they give you very delicious fruit and you love that fruit and suddenly they take it away from you and say no way you cannot have it anymore. You will always miss to have that taste that experience. Of course we all need to be close to Swami as he says try to be dear to me as much as your are near to me. And I wanted to be he was I don’t know if I am dear to him. How do I know if I am dear to him? I have all these experiences, but I can never say I am dear to him unless he says I am dear to him. But I am near to him I want to be. This yearning this fire of love is burning in my heart all the time.
TED: Do you occasionally catch a smile from him?
NOOSHIN: Oh! I do all the time –deep, deep. In darshan he looks into my eyes and his eyes is my most favorite. I love his eyes. Yes, of course. I know he is looking at my soul, which is so beautiful because I am 100% sure who he is, but I never loose my hope to have another interview.
TED: We all never do.
NOOSHIN: He may one day call me for another interview. I never want anything else except to look at him so closely for a few minutes, half an hour. I love him more and more and more. That’s all I want. Even previous interviews rarely I ask him anything from Swami - material.
TED: It is tempting sometimes, The few interviews that he does grant to feel a little bit of jealousy about those lucky people who get to go in, but on the other hand it is also a chance to really be happy for them that they get this close contact with Swami. Back to your day. You say this is your workshop and you were describing a little bit about how that takes up time during your day. What else. I think people will be curious to know how somebody who has lived here full time two years passes their time day after day seven days a week.
NOOSHIN: I think the most. We all have different sadhanas to do, different spiritual paths. Sam goal, but we all have different paths. For me everything is around his darshan. I make sure in the morning and afternoon I have his darshan.
TED: Even though Swami doesn’t come in most mornings.
NOOSHIN: It doesn’t matter. It matters of course, but for me this is the best time I can sit in the darshan hall while I am hoping he comes or waiting for him I can do japa. I use this opportunity to pray for the whole world. My prayer right now is: “samastha loka sukino bhavantu”. This is all I want from god.
TED: So, you do this over and over. May all the beings in all the worlds be happy.
NOOSHIN: Yes. Two hours, two and a half hours, three hours.
TED: What is your opinion about why Baba transposed the lyrics recently in that beautiful chant because I am not sure if you are aware.
“Loka samastha sukino bavanthu”
NOOSHIN: Samastha loka I guess is. Before this is from Swami I heard – not personally from him, but people they explained it. Samastha means “whole” loka means “the world”. This world we are living in, but Swami changed it to samastha lokaha the whole beings in the whole universe- beyond this world. This shows you are expanded also. We are not thinking about just our own life, our own country, even our own world. Swami wants us to think about the whole cosmos.
TED: That was very nice when I first heard that. It was so good to hear the men who sing the bhajans here sing it that way here. When my wife and I read your book we were captivated by how you handled all the pain. And there is intense pain in this book. It is very hard to read. I know it’s all real. Not only did you have these marriages that were fairly brutal I think, but also they also pulled you away from your child, it pulled you away from your family countless times. Your country even countless times and the time you spent talking about your time with Swami-your dreams and in your life were outstanding. What I didn’t get so much was where were you in your heart on your spiritual part. You said a few minutes ago where you are now. You are to a point where I might say is complete detachment from all these important considerations in our life. -Family. How did you get from where you were as a beginner devotee through all this karma you had to pay to where you are now? What was the evolution of your spirit?
NOOSHIN: First of all, one thing it helps all of us. We don’t know the whole scenario in advance. If they tell me you have to go through all this pain and suffering I wouldn’t choose to play this role probably, but this is very little. When Swami came to my life I was coming here from Iran every six months. He would pamper me. He comforts me, he gives me hope and I was able to go back and be with problems and he became my mother and my father and when I was eleven twelve, when I lost my father that’s when I became numb. I learned to detach even that age. Not to take life so seriously.
TED: You were close to your father.
NOOSHIN: I was close to my father, but I was closer to my mother. The fear of losing my father distanced me form my father. But, Swami helped me a lot. Last 18 years in my life was the most difficult in my life. He helped me and I was not thinking if I can deal with this or not. I was just courageous just facing the problems somehow trying to solve them anyway I knew. Maybe I made the mistake many times. Sometimes I was not obedient completely with Swami and surrender to him completely. He let me to go and bang my head to the wall and learn, which was good. I learned now to surrender completely to him.
TED: What about someone who hears your story and who are brand new to Sai Baba. Maybe they are not even convinced in their heart and they want to pursue this path, but they hear you and me and Jody and Sai Baba talk about personal experiences he grants to people. So many people feel left out that they have never had a personal experience. What can you say to them to stay faithful to their spiritual path?
NOOSHIN: I think first yearning is so important. I had this very intense yearning to have this experiences and I asked God to give me the experiences. Ask him. He would give it to you if you are ready.
TED: Wow! He is giving it to you all the time. Five nights a week in your dreams. Those people I have gone through that period where I have asked and nothing seems to happen.
NOOSHIN: I think maybe the receiver has to strong enough to receive all these experiences. Not everybody is able to receive these experiences.
TED: So, desire alone might not be enough.
NOOSHIN: No everything else it is not just one thing one element makes you eligible of this grace and experiences. God is an experience. You cannot talk about God. First of all you cannot talk about God. You can talk about your experiences, but what we can say about God is nothing beyond. That is why the language of the spiritual is silence because nothing has been said to explain God, but we talk always about our experiences and people can relate to experiences better, but I think God is experience. Reading is good, hearing other people’s experience is also good, but we have to have first hand experiences. One thing I know when we come close to Swami. Swami wants us to have personal relationship with him and I think if you talk to other devotees. I am sure you have talked to hundreds of them. When I talk to each one of them they all have experiences somehow either through dreams, visions or miracles happening in their lives they all Swami gives them. This is not about the experiences. It is about the awareness of the experiences. Even before I came to know this form, is an avatar is God descend upon earth from heaven. God was always playing a role in my life. I was not aware of that. Now I know. Now I know Swami’s hand in my life all the time.
TED: You plan to live here forever?
NOOSHIN: Ask Swami? Does he plan for me to live here? I have no idea. I am always ready to go wherever he tells me to go. If tomorrow he tells me to go back to Vancouver or go back to Iran or anyplace he wants me to be it’s okay with me.
TED: Does it hurt you that your family members closest to you that you love not only are not only Swami devotees, but can be critical and sarcastic about your relationship to him.
NOOSHIN: First it was, but now no because I don’t blame them for who they are or what they think because god is the only one who has to open their hearts. There is nothing I can do because they are not ready. When they are ready.
TED: I’d like to ask you to follow up on the comment you made shortly before we turned the camera on that can be confusing to some and they can take it the wrong way. I think I know what you are saying that you find yourself today totally detached from your mother, from your son, from everyone and everything around you. That’s beautiful to those who understand it but perhaps quite confusing to those who don’t understand it. Perhaps you can talk a little bit about that.
NOOSHIN: First of all, I would never tell my family that I am detached from them. It is not necessary. It is something spiritual this practice in their mind. You have to always practice in your mind. When you don’t you accept that nothing belongs to you then you loose that attachment that possessiveness of that relationship and for me I found that love is firmness. Love is firmness. I love them as much as I did even I love them more now. I love my mother more because I understand them more now. I understand my son more.
TED: And no matter what your son does. If he is a genius, or makes a mistake, or doesn’t talk to you.
NOOSHIN: Never, I love them unconditionally.
TED: Is this what equanimity is supposed to be?
NOOSHIN: Well, hopefully.
TED: You are detached to the level where if you win the lottery or your closest friend dies you vibrations are at the same level
NOOSHIN: Yes, because we are. All the problems come when you are related to the body. All the comparisons of the condition comes with the relation of the body to body. When you relate to the atma you identify yourself with the atma then you go beyond the relationship of what is happening it is good or bad it is going on. We are all one.
TED: Jody is curious to know what you believe your role is right now.
NOOSHIN: My role. I believe Swami brought me here I believe he wants me to play as a Muslim woman even though I am beyond all the religion. I see all religion the same. Different paths to the same God. I see, but still I play the role of the Muslim person I can help others. I can help those Muslim people who come here and they want to hear about experiences. Nobody can say how they can get closer to god. They have to go through their own experiences. But hearing other people sometimes will help them. There are so many Muslims that come here. Nobody knows.
TED: They come secretly.
NOOSHIN: No, they don’t cover their hair. Nobody knows they are Muslims because people are from Kazakhstan they are Muslim. It is a Muslim country.
TED: Yes, I know I think president’s wife for the premiere came to Baba
NOOSHIN: and Tajikistan and Turkmenistan and Kazakhstan. All the Soviet Union countries are Muslims. They come here to Swami without covering their hair or wearing their traditional Muslim clothes. Nobody knows how many Muslims are coming to Baba.
TED: Is it true. Well, I know it is true, but I don’t know if I remember the quote correctly that Baba will come to the population of the world after he becomes aware to the Muslim world in other words before the whole world reaches a period of the golden age Muslims in the world will first have to learn about Swami. Maybe that is not correct.
NOOSHIN: What Swami said eight years before he leaves his body Muslims will start to come to see him, which as somebody born in Muslim religion I am so fortunate I came many years before that. But, you know its just people Muslims are starting to come now. Lots of Muslims are here.
TED: What you see is only a key role to being in Prashanthi Nilayam right now.
NOOSHIN: right now. Yes. And being a good example. I always try to be. I don’t try to be happy. I am always happy. Trying to be happy doesn’t explain. I am always happy. Being happy and being vibrant and Swami’s love and I first time I came I see people very serious. Their faces don’t look happy to me. Am I going to turn like them? I don’t want to be like them. I want to be always happy. No matter what. Why should there be gloomy and so serious when we come spiritual and that’s why we sometimes think.
TED: We are also curious about the golden age. We have different views about that perhaps. What is your feeling about how close we are to the beginning of the golden age? Before you answer that, in my view it has already started for people like you and for other devotees who have Swami completely in their hearts.
The first part: When do you think the beginning of the golden age will be?
NOOSHIN: Golden age is I can express like this. Golden age for each person can be different. For me golden age has started when I saw one with God and I am no different from God and live in love that is the golden age, but golden age for the majority of people for the whole world. It depends how many percent of the population is awakened that’s how the golden age comes. Golden age is not like a miracle. Swami never gives us miracles about spirituality. We have to use our effort. If you are ready to wake up you are ready to practice his human values. Why not. That’s what Swami pays so much attention to the children. If there is golden age it is already started in the heart of those children.
TED: Well, lets use as examples the two countries you lived in. the government of Iran, the government of America. There couldn’t be more animosity between the two. Do you think that day is going to come in your lifetime when even the leaders of the highest government of Tehran and Washington will awaken and become conscious of spiritual paths?
NOOSHIN: Hopefully. I don’t know how long I might live. First of all I hope not too long. Every night I say Swami I am ready tonight. Every night I really didn’t know because if my life has been fulfilled and if he doesn’t need me anymore in this life I can go. But, government is different from people. I always make them separate from the people. Like we don’t approve of the Iranian government or of the American government because of their decisions, but some of my best friends are Americans. I love them I adore them. I am so close they are like a sister to me. How can I say they are different from me because of this country or that country. It depends how we look at things. A worldly perception is probably you know yes, two countries is the same. The two governments are not too different from each other. Hopefully they are going to change and Swami is going to help bring the awareness to the leaders of the countries, which is very important.
TED: There is so much importance in what you say in your book and Jody and I both came across this and are very happy. You ask Swami for Moksha and he responded - I give. Did things change for you after that?
NOOSHIN: Yes, It became unimportant – even moksha. Because there is a level you want to finish the game and go. Now it is more joyful because when you go beyond the suffering. You stop praying it doesn’t matter anymore if you come back if you don’t come back as long as you know you are one with god. You are not different. You are his instrument. He loves you. He wants you. Although I cannot say he needs you because we are the one who needs him, but the telephone experiences what message I got really we are so proud to say we are the instrument of Swami. Actually he doesn’t need any instrument because with his invisible hand he dialed the number of two cell phones nobody touched these two phones and he did by himself without any of us getting involved.
TED: You make it sound like this was one of the big leelas of your life. You must have had many many of them.
NOOSHIN: Yes, it was different leela. The biggest leela for me in this book is Saana’s story which Swami helped this little girl, cure her, and heal her. She is almost 15 or 16 years now.
TED: How is she doing?
NOOSHIN: I haven’t heard from her. I pray for her. I know she is in Swami’s hand. I am not worried about anything.
TED: Two final questions. Who is Sai Baba?
NOOSHIN: Sai Baba is cliché’ answer is love. Everybody will probably say the same answer. Swami is the core of my whole being. He is my self my soul, my blood, my spirit, my body, my everything. This is how I see Swami. I don’t see him separate from me anymore.
TED: Swami wants you to say and you said it already, ‘ I am God, I am God, I am no different from God” I know you intellectually believe that. Do you believe it with your soul and heart as well?
NOOSHIN: Yes, I had some experiences like I know we are all atma is that light and I have seen that light. In the middle of the night I woke up. I opened the eyes and I saw two circle of light comes out and I saw this light. Very, very shiny. It is hard to describe. I saw this light I feel it’s my atma and another day I was sleeping I woke up 5:30 6 “o” clock before 6 “o” clock and I saw my body when I woke up. The whole body was clear crystal. The while body was crystal and nothing else. It was an amazing experience. It was the same shape, but crystal. I cannot explain this experience but it is hard to say what are these that I am seeing, but I enjoyed it. I enjoyed the experience.
TED: Final question is not a question but a comment from you. We began with a comment and I simply asked you to end with a comment and I am thinking in particular this could be a guide to you. We have, Jody has drawn two new devotees to Swami. They are brand new. One is in her 50’s and one is in her 60’s. There will be new people who might see this who are brand new to Swami. They have skepticism, desires, yearning, love. What can you say to them? What would be your last comment to help people better understand what you do and Swami’s purpose in their life and in your life.
NOOSHIN: First, the only thing that I can tell to people coming here for the first time. Be open-minded. Don’t be judgmental, don’t judge Swami. Don’t judge anybody here. Let your heart be open, your mind be open and observe. Don’t think it’s this or that. Don’t think he is even God. This is because all the experiences they have they have to go through these experiences. There is nothing anybody can do the only thing I can do is to be a good example. If they see me happy after 18 years of loving Swami after all this suffering. I cam out healthy and fine and happy, it’s probably right way or right path for some people. We are not the one to chose the path for people and not necessarily we are all going to same experiences or same path. I can say be open-minded while you come here and open your heart to this energy. Because the level of energy Swami works on us you are not aware of it at ll. That is why darshan is very important.
TED: And for those people who are either sick or who cannot afford the long journey and who cannot come here. What would you say to them?
NOOSHIN: As I said Love is firmness. Try to expand the heart and the mind. As much you love more people you will expand more. Goodness. Practice the goodness in life. Goodness is same for all the religion. It is the same. Be good. Intention should be good. Swami taught me one thing. Maybe we make a mistake; maybe we are not obedient all the time. We don’t listen to him all the time, but if we have the good intention, good heart, good intention that makes a difference.
TED: Swami taught you one thing. Swami taught you many things.
NOOSHIN: I live in my teacher’s house don’t forget. Swami has been like a tutor to me a personal tutor to me. He took my hand he showed me every single step of the way.
TED: Nooshin, Thank you thank you ver,y very much. God Bless you. Sairam
NOOSHIN: My pleasure. Sairam.